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• • September 29, 2016 at 6:36 am #88722
    Robert Britton

    Member

    I have a question about what the standard is for PDF files that are to be printed on digital printers.

    I’ve been doing in house printing for a non-profit to a Konica Minolda C364e (no Fiery). We’ve had all kinds of issues with YDB syndrome. I’ve learned a few tricks from this site to help with it, but it still haunts us.

    There’s no rhyme or reason why some things show up YDB. I took a simple Illustrator image (an icon), placed it over another illustrator piece of art (a gear with seven cogs). In ID, they appear perfect.

    Exporting to PDF using the preset High quality print has a white box showing up on top of the gear, even though it’s transparent background (both are transparent).

    So this isn’t a question so much of YDB as much as it’s a question about what is the De Jure or De Facto standard for PDF format for use with digital printers (like our Konica, noted above).

    Is there a place I can go to find the specs of what is generally expected for a PDF file destined for a digital print house in terms of standard? (PDFX/2001, etc).

    I don’t know why ID has such a problem rendering overlapping transparent objects. Our documents are so simple and rudimentary. While I have learned a few tricks (rasterizing, flattening via Acrobat 4 (PDF 1.3), etc., I’m just really curious what the standard is for PDF format for today’s digital printers.

    THank you.

  • September 29, 2016 at 11:40 am #88746
    Colleen Shannon

    Member

    Robert, unfortunately there is no standard; too many variables. Personally, I prefer EPS format over AI. Too many things can go wrong with AI files. Also, I recommend building images in Illustrator instead of stacking in InDesign. If it’s easier to build it in InDesign, I often export as PDF, then Place as one piece back into InDesign.

    Spot colors and transparencies do not work together. In Illustrator, Object->Flatten Transparency. InDesign, use Separations Preview to ensure everything is Process build. Export PDF: x/1a:2001, uncheck Optimize for Web View, No Compression, Output -> Convert Color to US Web Coated (SWOP) v2

    When the mystery can’t be solved, we Export as JPEG (300 dpi), or rasterize the PDF at 300 dpi in PhotoShop.

  • September 30, 2016 at 7:08 am #88751
    Robert Britton

    Member

    Hi Colleen:

    Just wanted to say thanks for the response. It is very much appreciated.

    I don’t do any spot colors. Just pure CYMK. I learned early on the bane of spot colors.

    Your settings for the most part are what we use.

    You know, if we take the simplest of transparent images (say a B&W icon) and place it over a box drawn in ID (like a header), many times when creating the PDF, their is a white outline around the box instead of transparency. I truly don’t get it. There’s no ID effects. No spot colors. Just a box filled with a CYMK swatch with a transparent icon over it. YDB.

    I followed another article here (RE: YDB) and have a custom hi-rez flattener that essentially makes a huge rasterized PDF. Sometimes (most times) this seems to help with YDB, but it’s not 100%. And I’m left with this monster PDF (sometimes a 1gb+ in size after the high-quality custom flattener is used during export.) Takes forever to print, and isn’t what I’d call “portable”. But most times, I have no YDB (but not always).

    I’ve been doing ID for only about a year. I’ve never experienced such frustrations RE: PDFs ever in my life than this past year. At first, I thought it was our printer (the Konica). Then I soon realized that it’s the creation of PDFs that is at issue from ID. I’ve tried so many different approaches. Like I said, above, most of the time, I’m able to figure out a way to get a non-YDB PDF created. But usually, that is some freakishly large rasterized PDF.

    It’s been the bane of my existence since I’ve been working with ID.

    I had hoped that perhaps there was some PDF standard that I needed to use that would help here. Hence this post.

    I appreciate your input. I will continue to try to learn more about how to get better results. I have to do so much post export work in house, searching the resultant PDF for YDB, trying various PDF export options to get it to flatten transparency without creating YDB. Takes forever. Everytime. It gets tiring. Seems like an awful lot of craziness.

    :)

    Thanks again!

  • September 30, 2016 at 8:13 am #88752
    David Blatner

    Keymaster

    You can still have spot colors, even if you are speccing them as CMYK. See: https://creativepro.com/ink-manager-forget-step-exporting-pdf.php

    I much prefer placing PDF files (or even AI files) to EPS: https://creativepro.com/tiff-vs-psd-vs-eps-vs-pdf-vs.php

    Creating a rasterized PDF makes no sense to me. Why not just export it as a PNG or JPEG? You lose all your vectors, which is bad.

    I believe most digital printers do not require flattening. I suggest exporting as a PDF/X-4 file and then printing from Acrobat to your printer.

  • September 30, 2016 at 11:16 am #88757
    Colleen Shannon

    Member

    Robert, if you want to post a packaged file, I could do some Sherlocking on it.

    With black, you may have to control is using Attributes->Overprint:
    https://creativepro.com/make-a-knockout-black-that-does-not-overprint.php

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