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• • January 14, 2010 at 7:50 pm #54473
    Firedog

    Member

    Whenever I open a new book, after reading the blurb on the cover I turn to the (copyright page) (colophon) (backside of the Title Page)* to see who made the book and other details about its production. Sometimes I see the name of the printers and the typesetting company, sometimes the names of the font(s) used and so on. But I've never seen the name of the designer, yet he's the one chiefly responsible for what the book looks like. And to my mind that's at least as important as the quality of the product (paper, binding etc) and only just behind the content in importance.

    We designers are usually meticulous about photo credits, and a photographer would be quick to sue if we weren't. I can think of lots of reasons why it's not always possible to name a single designer, but in (many) (most)* cases one person has overall responsibility for the final presentation of the publication and deserves to have his name recorded for posterity.

    If I were looking for a print designer, I'd like to be able to browse through similar publications to see if I couldn't identify one I'd like to talk to. But they're never named! Why not? After all, any film you've ever watched tells you the name of the boy who tied the star's shoes if you bother to read the credits. Why don't we insist on recognition? Even to the extent of mentioning that we used Indesign and not (W..d) (P…….r) (Q….)*?

    Noel

    *select at will

    [Read she/her/girl for he/his/boy where appropriate.]

  • January 15, 2010 at 2:33 am #54476
    Dwayne Harris

    Member

    I work on books where a lot of designers are on the copyright page. And I've read a lot of books where the designer is on the copyright page. I think it may depend upon the publisher. The big ones (i.e., S&S, Random House, HarperCollins, etc. usually have the designer listed).

    What gets me sometimes is that when the designer does a lousy job and I've got to carry the ball, it's his/her name on the copyright, when it should be mine. I work for a typsetting company and I've gotten some stuff from designers that leave me shaking my head. I sometimes end up doing what they should have done but were too lazy to do. (I.e., a 500 manuscript book comes in and only 1/3rd of the thing was designed–I'm told by the designer to “make it look nice” or to “feel what I am doing.”

    As an aside–those pages in the back about what font is used is usually done because of trying to get to even forms for print and to keep blanks at the end to a minimum.

    No offense meant to designers. Most of them do a great job. But some out there give designers a bad name. And some don't deserve credit for anything.

    {EDIT: The designer is not usually the one who has overall responsibily for the final presentation. Usually it's first pass and that's it. But I”m talking about book publishing and my experience with that.

    And it does depend upon the book and what kind of book. Some designer do see it through to to the end, and some don't.

    I suppose I have mixed feelings about designers because of the various jobs and the how the various designers do things}

  • January 20, 2010 at 2:45 pm #54556
    Pariah Burke

    Member

    Doc,

    Designers aren't as well trained these days. In the good old days (the 80s and 90s), most print designers HAD to learn about the print production process, typesetting, and so on. Nowadays not so much. I'm a designer, and I began my career apprenticing in pre-press, press, and screenprint shops. I learned about PUTTING ink on substrate before I got very far into DESIGNING for ink on substrate. I also learned the rules about typesetting and the way people read. Many design education programs these days focus on how to use software like Photoshop and InDesign, but not on how to design properly or WHY to use Photoshop or InDesign for a particular task.

    My friend Sandee Cohen told me she recently met a couple of fresh-out-of-design-college kids who had never been told anything about prepping for print, who had spent only a day learning about kerning and leading.

  • January 21, 2010 at 10:06 pm #54590
    Alan Gilbertson

    Participant

    Pariah S. Burke said:

    Designers aren't as well trained these days. …

    My friend Sandee Cohen told me she recently met a couple of fresh-out-of-design-college kids who had never been told anything about prepping for print, who had spent only a day learning about kerning and leading.

    ---

    I've gotten used to printers and magaizine people saying they like to work with me because they never have problems with what I send them. I used to think “Well, of course. What did you expect?”, but I've discovered that this isn't the norm.

    Here's how bad it can get: Recently a contact at Lamar (the billboard folks) called to thank me for some client artwork I'd sent them for digital highway displays, because “it was perfect.” It turns out that “perfect” meant that I designed to a 1400 pixel by 400 pixel spec using (drum roll) 1400×400 pixels. This is rocket science? (The idea that it's unusual is actually a little scary. Perhaps that's another thing not taught in design school: read the mechanical specs.)

  • January 22, 2010 at 4:36 pm #54606
    Karen Nelson

    Member

    Ah yes, design school! I miss good old fashioned typography and graphic design courses where quality of design mattered along with proper file preparation.

  • January 23, 2010 at 3:17 pm #54622
    Dwayne Harris

    Member

    What I've been noticing more and more is that many freelance designers (book publishing) don't seem to keep current with their software. And in all honesty, some publishing houses don't, either. I know of one client who only wants the jobs done in Quark 6 or CS2.

    And in the past few years, I've had to do jobs where the designer *needed* the files back to *tweak* them. And because of that they had to be in the old software. One job was in Quark 3 and the other was in InDesign 2.0.

    One would think that any decent designer would be within a version of the latest software, not 10 years behind.

    Thankfully, my company keeps some older Macs around with OS9 and the older software around for such things.

    The company I work for keeps current (we have to), and I keep current at home for when I freelance (or do OT at home). Hell, I have Quark 8 and I don't use it. But I got it because I have to keep current.

  • March 2, 2010 at 5:02 am #55045
    Colin Flashman

    Member

    Its up to the paying customer as to what goes into the book. Many details can be written into the inprint page but the paying customer can say “i don't want that there, get rid of it”.

    Can be politics too, depending on the size of the agency. Creative Directors are normally in charge of graphic designers. a GD may be given Carte Blanche in terms of design and allowed to put their name, others may be told by the CD that they will stick to a stylesheet and put the CD or the firm's name as a “created by”…

    My workplace prints lots of books. From time to time we're acknowledged as the printer, likewise the design agency is acknowledged too, and rarely the designer personally. Sometimes though, the company listed on the inprint page which SAYS it printed the book ISN'T the company that printed the book – the printing was subcontracted, despite what the inprint page says. This happens a lot.

    Depends on what the publisher puts in the inprint page ultimately. There's no reason that more information couldn't be in the inprint page, and with Forest Stewardship Council (FSC) certification, we've found authors devoting a few lines as to not only the kinds of paper used but also the source of that paper.

    I also agree with Docbud where clients have foisted bad artwork into the factory and prepress has spent ages fixing, yet they have the nerve to claim the work was designed by them rather than thrown/dumped at the printer to fix… be nice to have the factory's name somewhere there. I must add that these are typically one-off publishers and isn't a representation of the industry as a whole.

    But where does one draw the line and who really deserves the credit? Just like movie credits, book credits could go on ad infinitum e.g. Production Manager, Assistant to the Production Manager, Prepress, Prepress Supervisor, Platemaker, Printer, Print Supervisor, Print Offsider, Folder Operators, Bind Line Supervisor, Hand-work Operators, Despatcher, Courier Driver, Secretary etc. (and the book hasn't even left the factory yet!). There are a lot of people who really deserve credit for producing a book – its quite often a team effort of at least a dozen people.

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