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• • January 11, 2012 at 2:49 am #61395
    Rhiannon Miller

    Member

    A colleague of mine is preparing a PDF for a book in which some spreads will have images spanning the spine. The printers have said they don't want internal bleed in the PDF and don't adjust for creep, and the client is concerned that some of the image will be 'lost' in the spine. Should we be manually duplicating a small amount of the image at the spine, and if so, how much?

  • January 11, 2012 at 4:52 am #61396
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    Do what the printers asked you to do. They know what's best for their setup.

    When making the PDF, go to the Marks and Bleeds section and change the Inside Bleed to 0.

  • January 11, 2012 at 4:56 am #61397
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    And also – it's always nearly best to never account for CREEP in the design.

    The printers do this manually based on the paper weight being used to print the job. It would be very hard to get this reprinted at a later date and the printer can't their hands the same weight or type of paper, if you've adjusted for CREEP already.

    Unless the printer specifically request you add creep – which would be bizarre as they would have to calculate it based on the paper – then you should never do it.

    Follow the printers instructions. If you have issues or concerns raise it with them. Good communication with the printers is vital.

  • January 11, 2012 at 8:13 am #61400
    Tim Hughes

    Member

    As Eugene says follow what the printer says, and don't ever try to account for creep, it's a press setting based on the paper weight.

    However, I also agree that you don't want to loose a bit of the image into the spine, an old colleague of mine used to insist on adding a 6 point offset to any dps images, and it did work. It does look wrong in the document but when printed worked well.

    If you can see a bound proof of it then you can make a call on it then.

  • January 11, 2012 at 8:21 am #61401
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    The printers might have enough room to offset the page in the imposition. Anything extra could throw off their template.

  • January 11, 2012 at 9:00 am #61402
    David Blatner

    Keymaster

    While I generally agree with the “ask the printer” adage, I think that this is a case in which duplicating the image (having one image on each page; each image not actually crossing the spine), and moving the image out a little bit, so there is some part of the image shown twice. If it were a magazine, I wouldn't worry so much, but for a book, there will almost certainly be a little bit lost in the spine.

  • January 12, 2012 at 1:58 am #61418
    Tim Hughes

    Member

    Yep thats it David, we used an image frame for each page with a 3 mm “nudge” over. (It was a 6mm offset not 6 point, sorry)

    My friend would often pick up other peoples work and comment on how they had lost some of the image into the spine.

  • January 12, 2012 at 9:03 am #61419
    James Wamser

    Member

    Full disclosure: I work for a commercial printer, so the opinions are based on our (Prinergy) workflow.

    In a perfect bound book, we do not shingle the pages. If it's saddle stitched, then creep is automatically applied based on a formula we use that takes the stock and number of pages into account.

    As far as spreads go, in a perfect bound book, it typically does not lay flat so you don't really notice the missing image, that's not to say there will not be any image missing. We do have a couple of customers who take it upon themselves to adjust the images when a spread crosses the gutter, but we don't ask for images in the PDF to be adjusted.
  • January 13, 2012 at 2:03 am #61430
    Tim Hughes

    Member

    So if I may summerize:

    there is no technical reason to add to the image, only aesthetic.

    It is personal preference.

    In my mind it just shows attention to detail.

  • January 13, 2012 at 8:47 am #61433
    Rhiannon Miller

    Member

    Thanks everyone for your help. We're going to follow the printer's instructions (of course) about the bleed, though it seems a little odd to me to have no inside bleed at all. But following David's and Tim's suggestions, we're going to duplicate the images at the spine just a little. And thanks James for the printer's point of view – much appreciated. I didn't realise perfect-bound books didn't have creep: I'd understood that the pages were folded in the same way (we certainly try and submit books to a 16- or 32-page working) and then trimmed off to create the binding.

    Tim: Bound proof? Oh my sides!

  • January 16, 2012 at 1:48 am #61453
    Tim Hughes

    Member

    LOL, I know, sometimes a proof can be too much of an ask these days, let alone a bound one.

  • January 16, 2012 at 1:58 am #61454
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    @orielwen

    Perfect bound books typically don't need bleed because they're done in sections of a MAX of 32 pages per section. There'd be no need to add creep to a 32 page section, it would be rare, the paper would have to be quite heavy.

    For saddle stitch books you could have more than 32 pages folded and stapled. It could be, 48 pages, 60 pages, or as high as 96 pages (depending on paper stock). There would be a limit though, and I've rarely seen more than 80 pages actually saddle stitched. Anything over 80 and they printer would be better off doing it perfect bound. But it is very dependent on the paper stock, so you have to trust the printers.

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