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• • July 16, 2011 at 2:32 am #60061
    Mayoor Chheda

    Member

    I am designing a book where none of the objects or the text go anywhere near the edge of the page. In fact, the minimum distance between the object & the edge of the page is almost about 10 mms. Do I still have to include bleed in either the document setup or in the PDF preset while exporting the book to PDF or can I safely export the book to PDF without bleed setup. If I do have to include bleed at all times, how much of bleed should I add. My page dimensions are 7 inches X 10 inches (Portrait).

  • July 17, 2011 at 3:40 pm #60062
    mckayk777

    Member

    No, if no artwork is close to the edge you will not need bleed

    Normal bleed is between 3mm to 5mm

    Only reason maybe is if you wish to draw your own crop marks and colour bars if needed then.

  • July 18, 2011 at 4:11 am #60068
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    Bleed is only required when objects are needed to be printed right to the edge of the page.

    If you only put the object right up against the edge of the page you could end up with white slivers where the guillotine misses the exact edge.

    As you can see from the image – the paper is stacked as such when printed. It can shift by up to 5mm left, right, up or down, in EXTREME cases. Usually a 3mm bleed is sufficient to counteract this.

    There's a lot of movement when the paper is fed into a printing machine (see picture below). It is then stacked on the other side of the printing machine and again it might not be aligned exactly on top of each other.

    The Guillotine operator then takes that paper and cuts it in smaller stacks, as all that paper would not fit in the guillotine. So again there is manual movement of the paper, where it's stacked as carefully as possible.

    The bleed is there so there is an extra bit of colour about 3 to 5mm outside the page area. Where if any movement from press to guillotine occurs, or even on a folding maching, that when the paper is trimmed they have a bit of wiggle room.

    This is what the paper looks like on a printing press. The vaccuum cups pick up a piece of paper one at a time and it's fed into the machine, and it is again stacked on the opposite end of the machine.

    

  • July 18, 2011 at 4:28 am #60070
    Theunis De Jong

    Member

    There's a lot of movement when the paper is fed into a printing machine (see picture below). It is then stacked on the other side of the printing machine and again it might not be aligned exactly on top of each other.

    Eugene, nice picture! Brings back MEMORIES OF HAVING TO TALK QUITE LOUD, EH?

    Usually, sheets like these are printed double-sided, and registration marks ensure both sides aren't off by anything more than the width of a registration mark (typically, that would be around 0.1 mm). Although it's a pure mechanical process with, indeed, a lot of moving parts (and moving extremely fast, at that), the pressman has full control over the lateral movement of each sheet. Under ideal circumstances, a client would never see misaligned text.

    The same goes for cutting; the biggest danger is of trying to cut a large stack at a single go, because then it's possible the entire stack shifts when the knife goes down. But that should be an exception, honestly.

  • July 18, 2011 at 5:23 am #60072
    Mayoor Chheda

    Member

    Thanks all of you. Honestly, this is the best blog & forum as far as Indesign is concerned. There is hardly anything that is not discussed & there is usually a solution for any kind of problem (barring hardware-of course).One more thing, before exporting to PDF, should you include all Printers marks, only the crop marks (provided bleed is not required), or should the printer guide us as to the marks required.

  • July 18, 2011 at 6:24 am #60075
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    Indeed Jongware. I was just illustrating that the paper goes through a process of being mechanically fed into machines. The registration is usually spot on, but then the paper is stacked again on the opposite end of the print machine. It's then moved, usually my a hand truck (pallette truck) to the guillotine operator who hand stacks them onto the guillotine.

    And of course as you point out that the paper can slide as the knife cuts through. Which is very rare. Theres a massive clamp that holds the paper in position.

    But some pages can slip and slide. And of course you can have the item trimmed on a stitching machine like a Muller.

    First picture is the guillotine and second is the muller

    This would be typical as you can imagine if one sheet in that stack slips by 1 mm you would get a sliver of white showing – if they didn't use bleeds

    

    I'm not sure if this particular machine trims – I imagine it does, but this is the basic Saddle Stitching machine, where it's stapled and edges can be trimmed.

    

  • July 19, 2011 at 10:05 pm #60089
    Mayoor Chheda

    Member

    Before exporting to PDF, should all Printers marks be included, only the crop marks (provided bleed is not required) should be included, or should the printer guide us as to the marks required.

  • July 20, 2011 at 4:00 pm #60100
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    Normally I only include the crop marks.But I always change the offset to match the bleed setting.

    Some say just include the bleed and no marks.

    Some say bleed and registration marks.

    Check with the printers. But make sure you Offset the marks to be the same or slightly more than the bleed.

  • July 21, 2011 at 12:41 am #60104
    Tim Hughes

    Member

    As you should be supplying pdf's to the printer its not really an issue as they can add marks themselves, however best practice is to talk to the printer and see what they would like you to supply.

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