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• • September 10, 2010 at 7:48 am #56966
    Avram

    Participant

    Hello everyone,

    At my job I've recently taken over the layout duties and one of the problems I'm having is large gaps between body text and footnotes. Attached are images of the two problem pages (please note that p10 contains artwork and so the text frame skips past this page):

    

    

    As you can see, page 9 has a large gap which I can't control. Allowing footnotes to split might be a solution but I'd rather not the software dictate how the design looks. Oh, and as it's a large document with many edits on their way I'd rather not add separate frames for the footnotes.

    Does anyone have any life-saving advice on how to close the gaps? Thank-you so much!

    Avram

  • September 10, 2010 at 7:50 am #56967
    Avram

    Participant

    And in case the images didn't load, here's links to them:

    https://onlineavram.com/footnotes-p9.jpg

    https://onlineavram.com/footnotes-p11.jpg

    Thanks!

    Avram

  • September 15, 2010 at 6:25 am #56997
    Avram

    Participant

    Anyone?

  • September 15, 2010 at 6:53 am #56998
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    What are the Keep Options like in the Paragraph Styles?

    The first box should be

    Keep with Next: 0 Lines

    The next section should be

    Keep Lines together

    Start: 2 (or 3)

    End: 2 (or 3)

  • September 15, 2010 at 12:37 pm #57016
    Avram

    Participant

    Thanks for the reply, Eugene, but the 'Keep Options' were like you suggested in the Paragraph styles. Anything else you think might be causing problems?

  • September 15, 2010 at 12:56 pm #57017
    Theunis De Jong

    Member

    The usual (recommended!) settings for plain text is to keep at least 2 lines together at the top and at the bottom. In this case, the last two lines of the paragraph on p. 9 are kept together on p. 11 (what happened to p. 10?). These two lines do not fit on the previous page because they both contain a footnote, and therefore there must be enough space at the bottom of p. 9 for those two lines plus their footnotes.

    It seems you are not allowing to break footnotes across pages, which is commendable, but in this case shows it not always produces “nice” results.

    It's also possible the keep options in the footnote's paragraph style prevents them from breaking.

    Try this: drag out the bottom of the text frame on p. 9 until you see the text wrap into place. The amount you have to enlarge the text frame is what you should try to win, on this page or earlier, to get what you want.

  • September 15, 2010 at 1:15 pm #57018
    Avram

    Participant

    Thank-you Jongware for the response. Page 10 is a full-page map but it's not connected to the main text frame and so doesn't seem to affect the problem.

    I'm going to take the easy way out and allow split footnotes. It looks a little messier but at least I'll still have hair on my head.

    Thanks for all the advice!

    Avram

    <edit>

    I should say that I also discovered the problem disappearred whenever at least three lines were removed from the body text. Sadly, that wasn't an option I was allowed.

  • September 17, 2010 at 8:35 pm #57039
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    I'm afraid that if you're setting text with long footnotes, you're forced to make compromises. If you adhere to the rule that there should be at least two lines of a paragraph at the top or bottom of a page, you'll have big gaps such as the one you showed us. The last two lines of the critical para each have footnotes, one of them long – they won't fit on p. 9. Even if you turn off the Keep option for that para, you'll end up with a 2-word line at the top of p 11. You could ameliorate this by adjusting the tracking to allow a few more words on that line.

    Incidentally, I understand that the latest Chicago Style Guide no longer requires two lines of a para at the top/bottom of a page. I see many trade publications that ignore the rule.

  • September 19, 2010 at 1:33 am #57045
    kfhking

    Member

    I think the best way is to play with leading between the lines. some times a .3 to .6 lower leading value over the whole page of text makes a big difference and does not really show up. Try it, but just do know if the text is align to baseline grid this will not work unless you change the value of the baseline grid. (THIS WOULD CHANGE IT ON EVERY PAGE! IF YOU DECIDE TO IT SHOULD BE APPLIED TO THE TEXT BOX ONLY!)

    I hope this helps.

  • September 20, 2010 at 3:52 am #57057
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    Adjusting the leading is a no go for me. If that text reflows you'll have inconsistent leading on pages, or worse, on facing pages and it will look completely wrong. And it would be very difficult to do if you've alligned your paragraphs to a baseline grid.

    Adjust the tracking is probably the best way to get more on a line, but I try to never go lower than “-10″. If it still doesn't fit, then I could try adjusting the footnote text too; afterall, that should be less noticeable than the actual body text.

    Try to keep the type size, scale and leading identical throughout – you can squeeze words and letters together using tracking/kerning, but try not to do it so much that it's unreadable or too squished that it looks forced, if you can't get the lines of text back without making it look like a mess then forget about it.

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