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• • August 11, 2015 at 1:07 am #77212
    Isidore

    Member

    Greetings fellow users,

    Having found no answer to the issue that I am facing in the existing topics of the forum, I decided to call for your help directly. So here it goes:

    I am working on a book layout trying to apply classical rhythm and proportions. The format is 140mm x 210mm (396,85pt x 595,26 pt), which equals a proportion ratio of 2:3, and the margins are set according to the golden ratio as described famously by Jan Tschichold. The size of my text frame, which is positioned according to the aforementionned margins, is 264,566 pt x 396,85 pt.

    The issue that I am facing pertains to the vertical space of the text frame. I want to
    #1. Have all the the lines of the pages align throughout the whole book
    #2. Have (in addition to #1) the same number of lines on pages throughout the whole book
    #3. Maintain #1 and #2 while being able to have, in addition to my main body text, different variations of text sizes and leadings for headings, subheads, block quotations, footnotes, poetry, etc.

    Now to achieve this, I understand that I have to define a baseline grid which is in sync with the leading of my text. I have no problem achieving this. What I am having a hard time achieving is #1 and #2 when I add text variations with sizes and leadings different from the main text (ex. block quotation, poetry verses, etc.).

    I am aware of the basic principle that to achieve this overall balance one has to define a vertical scale, which means that each departure from the main text should be an even multiple of the basic leading. But applying it in InDesign is a mystery for me.

    I am able to add block quotations and other variations to the main text but forced to keep the same leading of the main text and baseline grid. I defined a baseline grid with an increment of 6 pt which is a multiple of the basic leading (12pt) and inserted my quote and poetry verses with a half-space (6pt) before and after. But now I want to be able to change the size and leading of these text variations while keeping the lines of the spread aligned. Here is a capture of my spread:

    

    What increments should I put in my baseline grid in order to add any variation of text I want? How do I calculate it? Do I have to set the leading of my main text according to the size of my text frame?

    I would be most grateful if you could enlighten me on that issue. I tried every possible increments for the baseline grid with no success.

  • August 11, 2015 at 2:46 pm #77239
    AaronA

    Participant

    Hi Isidore,

    Yes, your body leading must be according to the height of your text frame. (Would the ID did the math for us.)

    But you can’t have any variation that you want while keeping to your rules. If you want to align every line, then everything’s gotta be at the same leading, or simply set to ‘align to baseline grid’.

  • August 12, 2015 at 3:55 am #77243
    Isidore

    Member

    Thank you so much for the reply AaronA.

    Could you please elaborate on how to calculate the leading according to the text frame? What is the benefit of that?

    I always thought that the leading of the text has to be based on the size and the style of the typeface (among other things) not on a fixed number.

    I still don’t understand how to add text variations (different size and leading) with the main body text (block quotations, verse, etc.) while having a baseline grid activated and while keeping the same number of aligned lines on both pages.

    Thanks for the help!

  • August 12, 2015 at 10:54 am #77276
    AaronA

    Participant

    I assume that you’ll want to sometimes align elements to the bottom of your inner text block proportions. So it would make sense that you’d want your last line of text to also align to it. To do this, you’ll have to make the text block height a multiple of your body leading. Otherwise they won’t match up.

    You can then view your baseline grid (which you’ve set up in Preferences, right?), and have that start at the top of your inner margin.

    As I mentioned before, any text variations (pull quotes, verse, etc.) have to be multiples of your body text leading in order to align to the body text. No way around that. Unless you want just the last line to align, or something like that.

    This guy Marcus Garde goes into great detail on classical grids — I guess he was the teacher of the developer of the plug-in Grid Designer Pro. You might find it interesting.

    https://www.bachgarde.com/gridsystem.html

  • August 16, 2015 at 7:57 am #77346
    Isidore

    Member

    Hello again AaronA,

    My apologies for the delay in responding. What a tremendous help is Marcus Gärde’s tutorial! Thank you for sharing it with me. As for Grid Designer, it sure looks as a well-thought tool; I have watched the tutorials of the plugin but they mainly focus on magazine layout, not book layout.

    I am still struggling with the variations inside the text frame trying to make them harmonize with the body text; not an easy thing to do.

    I will update any progress that I make on this thread. It will be of great help if other members of the forum specializing in book design could share their experience in having to deal with baseline grids and text variations.

    • August 16, 2015 at 10:02 am #77348
      Dwayne Harris

      Member

      I do a lot of books, and if I have an element (such as extract) that is on different leading than the text, I manually adjust the space above and below to get it back on even lines.

  • August 16, 2015 at 10:43 am #77349
    Isidore

    Member

    Hi Dwayne,

    Do you mean you put the extract on a different text frame with the leading that you want and then place it with the main text frame (which is locked to the leading of the baseline grid)?

    The reason why I ask you this is that manually adjusting the space before and after the extract, within the text frame, is (to my very limited knowledge) not possible with a fixed baseline grid without disturbing the balance of both pages of the spread. The only exception I have found is by dividing the leading of the baseline grid by an even number.

    Thanks for your help.

  • August 16, 2015 at 10:06 pm #77358
    AaronA

    Participant

    Hi Isidore,
    Glad you found the link helpful.

    RE: your question to Dwayne, if I may jump in:

    The key to the extract text is that it would NOT be set to align to the baseline grid. But as long as the (body) text surrounding it DOES align, then I believe the balance of the spread should be fine. Unless you have a very long extract that isn’t surrounded by body text. And in fact the extract could start at the top or fall at the bottom of the main frame; it’s only the first (if at the top), or last (if at the bottom), line, that must align to the grid to keep the baseline alignment of the spread.

    Don’t let Tschichold boss you around too much. ; )

    • August 16, 2015 at 11:46 pm #77359
      Isidore

      Member

      Thanks for the support Aaron.

      With regards to your welcome advice my question to you is:

      How do you select a portion of text within a text frame which is locked to a baseline grid and make it not align to the grid? Is it by creating a new paragraph style specific to it?

      I wish I could speak to the dead and have Tschichold answer all my questions. ;)

    • August 17, 2015 at 4:03 am #77361
      Dwayne Harris

      Member

      Exactly what Aaron said. I don’t use align to baseline grid. I have my grids set up for the text leading. The only thing that really needs to align is the top and bottom of the page.

      If you temporarily wish to disable align to baseline grid, then you can just go to the paragraph palette and there will be two icons. One to align to baseline grid, and the other is not align to baseline grid. Just click the one you want.

  • August 25, 2015 at 5:46 am #77541
    Isidore

    Member

    Thank you guys for the support and sorry for the delay.

    I think I got it now. I am able to get an harmonious page spread even when I insert text variations by keeping the top and the bottom aligned.

    I have to say that Grid Calculator is of tremendous help although one could do it manually by crunching numbers (cf. Marcus’s article).

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