Thanks for your reply, Anne-Marie

At this point, I’m really just brainstorming ideas on how to recreate this rather complex Ventura project into InDesign. The methods are wide-open at this point – totally open to new ideas.

Thus, when I look at your questions re: the workflow I’m looking to create, some of my answers will be “not necessarily” :)

>> So you’re trying to create a workflow where:
>> 1. The InDesign user pours copy into a story and into some additional stories

Yes. The primary story runs through some 30-120 pages, depending on the length of each chapter. There are 19 chapters, not including the Front and Back matter.

The ‘additional’ stories are Tables and Case Studies – most of which are in single-frames, but some span multiple frames (across pages).

>> 2. The InDesign user exports all those stories to InCopy format

Not necessarily. :) Actually, the primary stories for each of the 19 chapters will not need to export to InCopy – well, not unless we change the overall production model drastically. The primary stories are generated from a database – thus, it’s the ‘keeper’ of the source text.

But, the Tables and Case Studies are not retained inside the database. Thus, I was looking at InCopy as a way to maintain these numerous little text files that need to be added here and there throughout each chapter.

At first, I thought of using ‘snippets’. They work just great! But, they don’t appear in the Links panel when you Place them. Although … having said that … I just viewed a Lynda.com video (one of David’s earlier ones, I think) whereby I’ve learned How To force these snippets to Place as a Link (externally referenced). So … perhaps ‘snippets’ are still a good idea.

But the anchoring of linked snippets (whether actual ID ‘snippets’, or InCopy files) is my current ‘gotcha’.

>> 3. (for some reason I don’t understand) The InDesign user anchors some of those add’l stories into the main story (note it’d have to be
>> the ID user who does this, IC users can’t anchor anything) without losing the unique links to the ICML files of neither the parent story
>> nor its anchored stories.

Yes. But really … this anchoring is only ‘temporary’. It’s only as a assistance to the user so that he/she can see WHERE to place these. But once placed and each page set in a linear front-to-back order, then each of these Tables, Case Studies can be unanchored (although, remaining anchored isn’t wrong either).

As you can see, the anchoring is really only just a ‘helpful’ assistance, rather than a critical feature.

I envisage being able to generate a INDD (perhaps from an IDML) file with 90% of all of the work ‘done’. Having ‘placeholders’ for each anchored Table and Case Study, which the user will then nudge into the best spot.

But it could also be that I’m thinking ‘too much’ about How this is currently done using Ventura Publisher. Perhaps with more brainstorming I might find an even better solution, thanks to all the cool features in ID.

>> 4. The IC user opens the layout and checks out and edits all the stories included the anchored ones

Editing of the Tables and Case Studies DOES sometimes need to happen. But whether we actually need an InCopy workflow or not remains to be seen. Perhaps just a one-way linked solution will do … and when all edits are done, the user can simply re-Export out the Tables and Case Studies with the latest/greatest revisions intact; ready until the next edition (published annually).

>> 5. The ID user updates the layout and then decides to unanchor stories and place them elsewhere, but maintaining their unique link.

Yes. Unanchoring is perfectly acceptable (at least, currently – mirroring the Ventura workflow method). And similarly, currently, the Tables and Case Studies do not HAVE to have a unique link to the external files once the book is done and dusted. At that stage, the ‘snippets’ can all be re-Exported in preparation for the next year. But … this too may change if my brainstorming comes up with a way-cool workflow unique to InDesign.

Whatever the case … I’ll be looking for a solution that we allow the current database-driven main body text to be laid-out intermixed with ‘snippet’ text files. I’m really looking forward to pushing InDesign to the limits to see just WHAT-ALL of its native features I can use to achieve the best and most-efficient workflow.

I’m already finding MANY features in ID that will greatly benefit this particular book production process. Sure, yes, there are SOME things that ID doesn’t do that Ventura does SO easily (Frame Tags, Column Rules (ruling lines inside gutters), etc.) but, so far, the PROS far out weigh the CONS in InDesign’s favour.

I’m REALLY enjoying using GREP and Nested Styles. I’ve just finished a Ventura to InDesign conversion of a database-driven, graphic intensive book for a publisher in Australia … and GREP played a HUGE (HUGE!) part of that process. I’m particularly fond of the “Positive LookBehind” and “Positive LookAhead” GREP commands.

>> If so i’m curious why the ID user needs to anchor the stories. Why not leave them on the side of the page or in the pasteboard even.

Actually … I’m aiming (currently) to anchor these INTO the pasteboard area (using Spine Aware – so they jump from a Left-hand to Right-hand pasteboard as they bounce through the document during layout editing), where the user will easily see them and know right-away ‘where’ they need to go.

Thanks for all your questions, Anne-Marie. Sorry, I tend to be verbose. :) If any here are old Ventura users … you’ll be used to my rather extensive messages from the old forums. :) (sad to say, Corel finally closed-down the old Ventura newsgroup … after 10+ years of no updates to Ventura 10, I guess the NG being shut-down might just be their way of saying, “So long and thanks for all the fish”. ;)

Yours,

Allan