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Anonymous.
Simon DuckworthHi All,
Call me old skool, but I've always worked up print-ready artwork by importing CMYK Tiffs into InDesign, making sure I'm using CMYK colours and spot Pantones when needed. A colleague of mine simply pulls in RGB PSDs and JPEGs straight into InDesign and lets InDesign convert everything to CMYK when exporting a print-ready PDF. Am I wasting my time by slavishly converting RGB files into CMYK Tiffs?
My concern with RGB is that colous may shift upon conversion – also, how do you gauge rich black on RGB?
Can anyone shed some light on the correct approach to setting up printready artwork? Why use Tiffs as opposed to PSDs and JPEGs? I've always (since my Quark days) been brought up to do things that way.
Many thanks, BB
Theunis De JongI think you just described the difference between the Easy Way and the Right Way …
David BlatnerYou are, since you mentioned it, “old school.”
You can view CMYK in InDesign using View > Proof Colors, if you want.
RGB does shift to CMYK in conversion, but the conversion that ID uses is exactly the same as the conversion in Photoshop.
However, there is nothing wrong with TIFF. That works fine. PSD is sometimes more convenient. JPEG is lossy (degrades images to get much smaller file sizes, but at maximum quality you almost certainly cannot see the difference).
There are some cases when you want to convert to CMYK first (such as perhaps screen shots), but for most photo images, it's not worth it. I discuss some of the pros and cons in my article in the current issue of InDesignMag.com.
Simon DuckworthThanks guys for the speedy replies!
@Jongware – That was my thought exactly! I'm trying to get a handle on studio production and put into place the 'Right Way™' of doing things so folk aren't working in different ways to meet the same goals.
@David – Jeez, now I feel prehistoric. I thought 30 was the new 20, but hey, maybe not! Will look at InDesignMag.com, maybe I need to change my ways a little. How would you cope with rich black using an RGB file – if I'm using a 40C 0M 0Y 100K to give a cool rich black, how would you do this with RGB?
Best, BB
David BlatnerThere are no “right” ways, but RGB workflows are very often far more efficient than converting to CMYK all the time.
I handle rich black by creating cmyk rich black areas in InDesign, not Photoshop. Tyipcally, rich black areas are areas like solid black rectangles with type over them. That's all better done in InDesign. There isn't really a need for speccing rich black areas in photographic images, is there?
Simon DuckworthPossibly… if you've got a product shot onto black for instance, you might want to control the way that the black looks, ie. warm it up or cool it down, and make sure that panels match up when you bring it into ID. But generally, I have to agree with you, and you could always treat it in a separate way if needs be. My initial perception of an RGB workflow was that of laziness and inviting printing errors, but if InDesign converts exactly as Photoshop would on PDF export, then there's no problem.
Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.
thorstedI used to be old skool as well, I was very adamant about everything being cmyk/spot and in a lossless format. Software and output devices had progressed so much since then that I have changed my ways. I get so much better results leaving my images RGB when I print to an Digital Indigo or a wide format machine that has an extended gamut. This is all of course relying on well color managed machines and RIP software.
From now I leave everything in the colorspace it was given to me and let the software handle the conversion.
RolandThe only times I convert source images to CMYK are
– when I have to send “open files” (AI, INDD including all links & fonts) to clients/printers for offset printing
– when I need to supply images to 3rd parties for advertising purposes
The only CMYK files I place into InDesign are Illustrator and InDesign files. Everything that comes out of Photoshop is kept in RGB.
nellbernThere are some cases when you want to convert to CMYK first (such as perhaps screen shots), but for most photo images, it's not worth it. I discuss some of the pros and cons in my article in the current issue of InDesignMag.com.
David, what is the name of the article & magazine issue?
nellbernDavid,
Never mind I found it. To keep myself update I'm subscribed to the magazine but I read it when I have a chance. Unfortunately at work Im still using Quark & I don't see their intentions to switch even though most of client ads & custom designed pages are coming in InDesign. So far I have been patience because I know it is just matter of time for them to switch to the reality that InDesign is better & more efficient program. Sorry I need to vent it
benc.academieWe are still using EPS with clipping path, CMYK files here. If you are “old school”, we are “ancient”… I can't make them swith to psd or tiff, i am surely not thinking about making them use RGB! At least we switched to InDesign… althought many of our projects are still in CS3. *sight*
bob_hopfnerI have to say RGB all the way. I am primarily in a digital world with in-house printing. The digital machines and good color management give us amazing and consistent color when using Adobe RGB profiles.
AnonymousIt's probably worth mentioning
Isn't Adobe RGB very close in the colour space that is achievable in Eurocoated/Coated Fogra/SWOP etc. profiles? I think it falls short on the yellow gamut.
For this reason I've been using Adobe RGB profiles for InDesign. As most of my projects end up in print and on the web. So converting from Adobe RGB to press profiles or to SRGB is a snap when exporting for different mediums.
Even if the image is in ProPhoto RGB (prob best to scan using this profile) but this profile has colour in the spectrum sometimes outside the human scope of vision. And I'll convert them to Adobe RGB so I can best control for print or for web.
It's served me well for a while, no issues. Anyone got any tips or “heeds” to be aware of?
AnonymousGenerally, if one is single-sourcing the output, for example a magazine publishing company sending to only SWOP presses, then it really doesn't matter if one converts in Photoshop or InDesign (as long as the color management settings are synchronized in Bridge). Of course, one should still keep a copy or the RGB original if converting in Photoshop.
If one outputs to different CMYK devices (laser, SWOP, newsprint, sheetfed, digital) for the final output, then an RGB workflow makes much more sense since every image would need a separate CMYK file created in Photoshop; then either separate InDesign layouts or the images would need to be swapped out. In InDesign, only a separate PDF would be needed. Not a problem for one or two images but it really pays off when using lots of images.
Another issue beyond CMYK or RGB is image resolution. Many users in an RGB workflow don't res-down the images. Not a big deal since excess resolution can be removed in the PDF–except for unsharp masking, which should be applied at the actual size/resolution of final output. For Mac users, a great utility is Zevrix Link Optimizer which can copy, convert, and down-res images before running unsharp mask on the images (and place them back into a copy of the InDesign layout).
AnonymousI came across this script a while ago for resizing images
https://sites.google.com/a/lapay.biz/www/imagestransformto100%25
I have to say for 99% of the work I do I don't need to apply an unsharp mask to the images. For that reason I use RGB JPGs and convert to Destination Profile on export from InDesign.
If I do have to touch up the JPG I resave it as a Tiff or PSD etc. (with layers if necessary).
I'm still trying to drill it into people's heads that if you include text layers, vector masks, or vector shapes in a layout in photoshop then always save it as a PDF with layers and photoshop editing compatibility.
I don't know about you guys but a lot of my stuff could end up in a flyer, magazine, display stand, signage etc. I wouldn't have time to keep track of multiple versions of different colour profiles, sizes, resolutions, what was sharpened and what wasn't etc.
I go for the 1 size fits all approach, the largest image I can find is used for everything.
I know people that actually download stock images and open the JPGs and resave them all as EPS without even doing anything to the file. In my opinion that's a complete waste of time.
Aleta El SheikhI agree with Eugene on this one. I lay out a small community newspaper and used to resize and convert all the images to CMYK TIFs in Photoshop. Then one month, just for giggles, I placed the supplied jpegs (all RGB, of course) in IDD without any PShop intervention and sent the PDF to the printer. The result in the printed paper was no worse than the previous issues, and in fact some of the images looked better. I still save as TIF the images I must grayscale, but I'm not even sure if that's necessary. Of course, we are talking about newsprint here, not a slick magazine.
AnonymousI should clarify for more important projects, other than newsprints, run of the mill magazines etc., like high-end production things like art books, I'll take the time to colour correct and make images placeable at 100% in CMYK with the appropriate sharpening applied.
For normal run of the mill things where people won't really look at the images I will selectively cut a few corners, I don't need to spend hours running a script and adjusting 100's if not 1000's of images if I don't have to.
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