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Vincent2.
Vincent2Recently I've had an issue with a PDF that used a spot color.
I called up the printers and found out that they had to uncheck 'overprint preview' in acrobat to create the postscript and the plates. I don't know why they did this. What they saw on their screen was either the spot colors disappearing or a thin outline of the color.
I usually do a transparency flattener to outline the fonts. Thinking that this might have conflicted with the spot, I manually converted the fonts to outlines and all the bulletpoints and underlines disappeared!
Is it something on my end or is it how the printer is setting up the artwork?
Bob LevineWe'd really need more info but the thing that concerns me is that you're flattening the PDF and outlining the fonts. That most certainly is not a recommended workflow. I'd be very wary of any printer that had requirements such as this.
If you post the PDF somewhere perhaps we can take a look.
Vincent2Hi Bob.
Thank you for your reply.
What other info would you like to know? I can't think of anything else except what the printer told me and how I normally setup artwork. I've flattened the PDF and outlined the fonts based on this tutorial: https://creativepro.com/con…..ht-way.php
I'm not in a position where I can post the work online because the job is confidential. What workflow would you recommend instead?
EelcoExport PDF: embed the font(s) and using PDF standard PDF/X-1a (or PDF/X-3 for remaining transparency). You should never(!) want to outline text!
Edit: regarding the spot color: really don't know at this point. As Bob said, we need more info.
Theunis De Jong.. they had to uncheck 'overprint preview' in acrobat to create the postscript and the plates ..
How extremely odd.
“Overprint preview” is a screen-only function. Checking and unchecking this will draw a certain PDF using different algorithms, but the PDF itself *will not be changed*. It certainly should have *no influence at all* on how a document is printed — that should be the same, no matter what the preview looks like.
(Unless these printers have very unusual procedures, like using the Print Screen button to produce their plates.)
AnonymousJongware said:
(Unless these printers have very unusual procedures, like using the Print Screen button to produce their plates.)
OMG I hope not
Perhaps they turned overprint on/off on the RIP, that's the only place it would make a difference.
Colin Flashmani've no idea what your printer is talking about (i.e. unchecking overprint preview). as Jongware said, that is a screen function only.
I wholeheartedly agree with Bob, post the pdf somewhere and get a second opinion from… well… one of us :D
Vincent2Hey guys.
Thanks for the responses.
I'm still learning about preparing artwork for press, so I'm just as confused as you are. Above is an example of the file that I recreated:
https://www.filefactory.com/fil…..r_file.pdf
The PDF file is compatible with Acrobat 4.0. It uses a transparency flattener with raster/vector balance of 100, line art text resolution of 2400ppi, gradient mesh and mesh resolution of 200ppi, and with 'convert all text to outline' and 'convert all strokes to outlines' ticked.
I have a gut feeling that Eugene Tyson might be right about the printer not turning on overprint on the RIP.
AnonymousThat is probably the worst file sharing site I have ever seen?
Can you use https://www.yousendit.com and post the link to download the file. I have no idea what I'm clicking in the website you uploaded to.
Colin Flashmanok, had a chance to check the pdf using acrobat 9 on mac 10.6.4. with overprint preview turned off, the green becomes almost white. however, once overprint preview is turned on, the green is quite visible and colour separates.
upon taking the pdf into illustrator to work out WTF is going on, i discovered that (when the overprint preview was off) the green becomes almost white, but again with the overprint on, the green goes green. however, while in illustrator, i placed the cursor on the solid green fill at the bottom and found a white fill which was set to overprint. once that was deleted, the green beneath was visible. I think this is the problem which your printer is talking about, because many RIPs have an action which forces any white to knockout, which is a normal thing to do, but once that happens, then the preview becomes almost white.
I think this problem is actually created by this paragraph in the indesignsecrets.com article:
Now you need to make sure your pages are going to get flattened. For each spread that contains text that you want converted to outlines, put a transparency object on it. If you want to convert every page, you can put this object on your master pages. For example, it could be an object with a Tint of .1% and an Opacity of .01% off on the margin that will never be seen. Or you could make a one-pixel large Photoshop file with a transparent background and place it on your pages.
after looking at the pdf, it looks like a white box was drawn over the entire artwork and then set to the tint/opacity as mentioned above BUT sent to the front. the advice above suggests that this only has to be done in a margin, not within the page and certainly not encompassing the entire artwork. the paragraph is unclear though and an illustration explaining this within the tip would have helped.
i'm not sure why the OP is going to such lengths to try and convert all text to paths and IMHO its completely unnecessary if the PDF is made using PDF standard PDF/X-1a (or PDF/X-3 for remaining transparency) as mentioned by Eelco in this post. i've read the original tip and many posts placed after the tip and feel that, unless files are being sent to older RIPs (like, WAY older) or the pdfs are being dealt with unusually (e.g. opened up in corel draw and then printed to a plotter – i've heard of this happening!) then PDFs should be fine. simply, if the PDF being supplied is to pass through a level 3 RIP, then outlining fonts is unnecessary if the pdf is made properly.
my buck o'five
Vincent2Eugene Tyson: Here is a fresh upload done with yousendit:
https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=bFFNTkZrQXAwZ2xFQlE9PQ
collywolly: Thank you for taking the time to analyse the file, I appreciate your feedback. Would I have to place the 'tint/opacity' box at the back? I remember trying this and the fonts didn't outline. How should the transparency flattener be created then?
For my adobe PDF presets, I have been using my own settings because I wasn't sure what PDF standard's i.e. PDF/X-1a are. I will definitely read about these settings. It just occured to me: what is the purpose of the transparency flattener trick if the PDF/X-1a setting embeds the fonts? Is the flattener suppose to overcome something else?
AnonymousYou've got a white outline above your green, the white is set to overprint.
But the white that is above the green is a fraction smaller than the green, so when printed without overprint turned on, the white knocks out the green and leaves you with what looks like an outline.
Why is there white over the green in the first place? It should not be set to overprint in most cases.
Colin Flashman@Eugene: it looks like Vincent2 has put a white box over the entire artwork and then applied a Tint of .1% and an Opacity of .01% to the entire white box, effectively making it overprint. after reading the post where the outlining fonts tip was posted by David Blatner, i think that Vincent2 has missed the bit where Dave said “off on the margin that will never be seen”.
In my work's workflow, a PDF made like this will fail to show the green as our RIP has a default function of making any overprinting white knockout, and i suspect thats what has happened to the OP's printer.
My suggestion was (and still is) don't bother outlining fonts when sending to printers who have modern level 3 RIPs.
@Vincent2: not meaning to refer to you in the third person there, but i would just not use the tip that david made. its a good tip but it has its place elsewhere, such as exporting pdfs to people that then open them up in software other than acrobat (i.e. corel draw or worse). the PDF/X settings embed subsets of the fonts, meaning it embeds only the letters of the fontset which were used in the actual artwork, but not the whole font.
John.CliffordI'm mostly concerned with the flattening part. If you're using a spot color, you shouldn't have it doing ANY transparency interaction. The flattening flattening will convert whatever is interacting into another CMYK color and you'll lose the spot color. IF you desire tints of a spot color, make it a tint, NEVER use transparency to lighten it up. Tints and opacity/transparency are two completely different animals.
If I'm way off base/misunderstanding the issue, please let me know.
Vincent2Hey guys.
Thanks again for the feedback. I'm going to start using PDF standard formats to send to printers and asking if they accept these files. Has anyone had troubles embedding fonts with PDF/X-1a before? Are the files reliable?
@John.Clifford: Hey John. I was following a tutorial from indesignsecrets that used a transparency flattener to outline fonts, not to tint a spot color.
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