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Tagged: perfect bound
David Blatner.
Chris BennettFor the perfect bound magazine that we produce, the printer requires us to split pictures that go across the spine to allow for the grind.
The manual process is:
1. Duplicate the picture box on top of itself.
2. Drag the right side of the frame on the left page to the spine.
3. Drag the left side of the frame on the right page to the spine.
4. Select the picture inside the frame on the left page and move it inside the frame by 3mm to the left.
5. Select the picture inside the frame on the right page and move it inside the frame by 3mm to the right.
6. Make sure you haven’t covered over anything in the original duplicate process.
I assume it’s the same for everyone that produces perfect bound magazines.
I looked around for a lazy solution, but couldn’t find one.
I ended up getting a guy to write a custom script for me, which does all of those steps, which saves me heaps of time.
I occasionally look to see if there are any other solutions, but I am surprised that I never seem to find any.
Is there another way to do this without a script or does everyone do it manually, or do people not bother splitting the pics anymore?
The guy that wrote my script can be contaced at: http://www.automatication.com
Disclaimer: I don’t know the guy. I paid him to write it for me about 7-8 years ago and I have been using it ever since.
Colin FlashmanThat sounds rather strange. Do you have the mechanical specs from your printer that state this, or are these verbal instructions that were given by the printer at one stage… and have you asked the printer about this lately?
Depends how the book was printed. If it was printed in large sections that are folded to the trim size and then the collected gathered folded signatures are then ground flat, then a gutter is normally allowed in the spine to compensate for the spine being ground down… otherwise the finished art will always be smaller than expected… unless the art is being overtrimmed at the end. If the book was printed digitally onto a smaller sheet size so that no folding is necessary, and book blocks are just one set of guillotine trims, then an even smaller gutter can be allowed for.
That said, having crossover images on a perfect bound book will have issues if the reader has to force the pages apart to see any content that may be hard to see in the bind… and this may be another reason the printer has suggested this 3mm offset towards the foredges.
So in short, no, I don’t do this – I let my imposition software move the pages to where they need to be for the appropriate binding… About the only time I might consider something like this is a cross-over between an inside cover and the first/last page of the book, and its to compensate for the 3-5mm of glue that bind the first/last page to the cover of the book. These crossovers are the hardest to line up.
Chris BennettHi Colin,
Thanks for your reply.
These were verbal specs from the printer that took us a few phone calls to clear up, as we were given different instructions from the art director when we took on the job.
We’ve been producing this magazine for about 9 years now. I haven’t spoken to the printer about this setup for a few years, but they’ve also never told me to stop doing it. Last time I specifically asked them about it, they asked me to still carry on doing what I was doing. The printer did mention that not all their clients go to this trouble, but they would prefer it if they did.
About a year ago, we produced a special edition of the magazine which was printed overseas (our normal printer is in Australia, the special edition was printed in China) and they gave me exactly the same requirements about splitting pics across the spine as the printer here wants.
You mention a cross-over between the inside cover and the first/last page of the book. This is the only occurrence that our printer says don’t do anything and just give us normal, single page PDFs and we’ll work the magic at our end.
I don’t know if this makes a difference or not, but the magazine has a print run of between 90,000 and 100,000 copies and ranges from 164 to 212 pages.
Matt MayerchakIn my experience with perfect bound magazines, the printers vary widely on this topic. One says to just make an educated guess as to how much to bump the images left/right because the amount changes with where it is in the book. Another will give me a number but won’t promise that it will work. It’s hard for me to believe that using the same measurement no matter what page it’s on or how many pages there are will provide satisfactory results.
This is something a good printer should be able to do for you, but so many of them nowadays have laid off the skilled prepress operators and replaced them with software, so you’re left to solve it. Systems like the Insite Proofing system are great for saving $$ but there is no human being involved in the process so the designer is responsible for any adjustments needed. You just upload the PDFs, approve them online, and off they go to the plates.
The best solution I have is to design around the problem – avoid crossovers if you can, and if you can’t, don’t have important information in the gutter. One magazine designer wanted the headline type split so that one letter was split down the middle – in that case I would definitely try to convince them to change the design so that there is white space there and the words are not split in the middle.
The other option is to spend more money and use a printer that still offers high quality prepress service.
David BlatnerThe guy you hired to write the script at Automatication was probably Martinho, and I can vouch that he’s excellent at what he does.
That said, what you’re describing seems like it should be part of the imposition process, which the printer should be doing for you. Are you saying you move the images but not the text or other objects on the page? Or you move everything on the page?
Do you provide PDFs to the printer, or are you giving them InDesign files to work from? I would hope PDFs.
Chris BennettYes, it was Martinho that wrote the script for me, and yes, the printer just wants me to split images that run across the spine, including DPS ads. Nothing else is moved. We never run text over the spine. We supply PDFs to the printer.
The fact that a printer in China asked us to do exactly the same thing for a special edition makes me think it might not be a unique request from our usual printer.
I suppose it keeps the type margins the same from one page to the next?
David BlatnerYes, it’s common for pages to move slightly farther in or out based on the kind of binding and where the page sits on the signature. But there are problems with their request: First, you’d have to move some images out just a tiny bit, and others out a lot more. Moving them all out the same amount makes no sense to me.
Second, you splitting the images into multiple frames that do not actually span the gutter makes no sense because you’re exploring to PDF… and InDesign does all that splitting for you in the PDF.
And third, again, this is what printers do, not designers. There is no way that you can do this correctly unless you know how they’re imposing it, how thick the paper is, etc. This is really basic imposition, as far as I know. I mean, jeez, even InDesign’s File > Print Booklet feature has a basic Creep feature built in.
Chris BennettHi David.
It’s not just splitting the pictures at the spine. It’s the moving of the pictures inside the frames. The picture on the left hand page moves 3mm to the left inside the frame and the picture on the right, 3mm to the right. This leaves you with a double image at the spine. Once the spine is ground off, the picture should then look correct if the magazine is laid flat on a table.
As the magazine is perfect bound, I don’t think creep is as much of a problem compared to a saddle stitched publication. I think the sections are 16 pages.
I hope this makes sense.
Chad SpicerChris do you still ahve that script? I have contacted Automatication and have yet to hear back from them- this is a constant that I have to deal with.
Chris BennettLet me know where to send you a copy.
Chris BennettChad, I still use the script. It works great for my situation. I’m not sure who actually owns it though. I paid Martinho to write it for me but I’m not sure if that means I can just send you a copy or not.
Martinho Da GloriaI have been contacted several times regarding the script that I wrote for Chris Bennett (almost 10 years ago).
Just would like to mention a few things:
I’m not authorised to share the script has it was a paid job.
Chris Bennett is solo owner of the script and has the right to share it to whoever he wants.
Chris BennettThanks for clearing up the ownership question Martinho.
I’m happy for anyone to use it.
It was a worthwhile investment. It saves me lots of time and helps me avoid mistakes.
AnonymousThis would be an extremely useful script as I find myself in the same situation as you @Chris!
-K
Chris BennettLet me know where to send you a copy and i’ll get onto it.
AnonymousThat would be amazing Chris.
Could you send it to brochure.production@gmail.com ?
Thank you so much!
–K
Marc AutretHi all,
Just to mention a similar tool for those who need to seamlessly fill the BLEED area:
https://indiscripts.com/post/2018/03/fill-bleed-fix-image-frames-so-they-meet-bleed-edge
(Free script.)
Best,
Marc
Paul StringaIn our print house we do exactly what Chris Bennet sugest. We don t do this in Imposition because when a page has text and image we only move the image. Note: when we use PUR we move 2mm to each side. When we use HOTMELT we move 4mm.
David BlatnerFor everyone who needs this, I wrote it up (including the script) in this article here:
https://creativepro.com/split-images-that-span-across-two-pages-free-script.php
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