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• • March 30, 2010 at 6:49 am #55357
    solstice

    Member

    My printer still requires me to put my pages into printers spreads before sending. If I use Indesign's page numbering feature and change my pages to printers spreads the numbers change and end up wrong on the final product.

    Is there a way to use Indesign's page numbering feature without the numbers changing when I move the pages. Can I lock them in somehow?

  • March 30, 2010 at 7:18 am #55360
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    Not being funny, but I'd get a new printer that can handle pdfs in readers spreads. That is the way forward.

    If not then I'd package the file up and send that to the printers (minus the fonts, they'd have to purchase them themselves if they don't have them already).

    And let the printer deal with the imposition, they should be doing it anyway, that's why I say to get a new printers.

    Anyway, have you looked at the File>Print Booklet function, and you can then print your file to a PDF and send that with the pages all in Printers Spreads.

    I just don't think it's up to you to supply the file in printers spreads, in my opinion that is the printers job. And if they can't handle imposition or PDFs in readers spreads then there's something really archaic about their workflow that sends shivers down my spine.

  • March 30, 2010 at 7:30 am #55361
    solstice

    Member

    Eugene, I knew someone would say that. I agree, but unfortunately the company I work for chose the printer and I have to use them.

    I have to change it to printers spreads and package everything for them. I think it's wrong…and I would love to use someone else but i'm stuck. I asked them why they just couldn't use the print booklet feature…I don't think they even know what it is. :(

    I get so tired of having to number the pages on my own, when Indesign can do it for me.

  • March 30, 2010 at 8:18 am #55362
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    How about starting a new document with spreads.

    Then you can you File>Place the original file into the spreaded layout and arrange the pages how you like.

    You will have to update the original file when making updates, but you should be able to update the links via the links panel (as your original indesign file will be the link).

    It wasn't just for your benefit it was for everyone's benefit. But now that you've clarified I think the above will work.

    When you package the Indesign file that is in printers spreads the original file will be in the Links folder.

  • March 30, 2010 at 9:48 am #55364
    solstice

    Member

    That's a good idea.

    If my printer didn't want the orginal Indesign files I could also use Print booklet to save to a pdf in printers spreads and use Indesigns script for placing pdf files in order then save package and send.

    That would save me a lot of time on large publications. I'll at least be able to use for inhouse print jobs.

  • March 30, 2010 at 10:31 am #55366
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    Well it sounds like you could do with some basic imposition software for InDesign and Acrobat

    Acrobat

    https://quiteimposingplus.com/i…..ooklet.htm

    InDesign

    ????????? I don't actually know of a decent one? Perhaps someone can help out with that?

  • March 30, 2010 at 1:02 pm #55371
    solstice

    Member

    I just realized that if I Click+Cmd+Alt, the page numbers they wont change when I move pages.

    I'll still have change the pages to printers spread but at least I don't have to worry about the page numbers.

  • March 30, 2010 at 1:05 pm #55372
    Theunis De Jong

    Member

    … If my printer didn't want the orginal Indesign files …

    Sorry to break in, but that's really a bad way of working. We're in the 21st century now, and have been for some time …

    It's time to face your boss and list the number of things that can go wrong in such a workflow … If he has a couple of hours, that is.

  • March 30, 2010 at 1:48 pm #55374
    solstice

    Member

    Jongware,

    I completely understand, but I work for a large corporation and there is a little more to it than that. They also have unbeatable prices and good quality work. And right now cost is a huge factor.

  • March 30, 2010 at 2:55 pm #55375
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    CTRL ALT CLICKING the page numbers breaks the page number, so if you were to add more pages, or move them then page numbers don't change. Really bad workflow I think.

    And imagine having to break the page numbers for a larger book, the largest book I do on a yearly basis is 3,200 pages.

    Trust me, this is not a good idea.

    I'm with Jongware, it's time to sit down and talk to the people making the decisions and move on. There's a million things that could possilby go wrong with working this way.

  • March 30, 2010 at 3:28 pm #55376
    Theunis De Jong

    Member

    They also have unbeatable prices and good quality work. And right now cost is a huge factor.

    That sounds they have a fixed way of processing others' documents. Hard to argue with, indeed. Can you ask them (nicely) why they won't accept PDFs? IDML only has been around for, what, 18 months? And it's not likely to be going “the document format of the future”, Adobe has always reserved that particular phrase for PDFs.

    Alternatively, always do the best job you can and let someone else make a mess — so you can point out that you've been warning everyone, like, forever!

  • April 2, 2010 at 12:13 pm #55402
    JohnnyTechno

    Member

    I would echo everyone else's comments about how bad it is to require that the customer do the imposition. I work in prepress, and we hate it when someone not trained in imposition sends us printer's spreads, even when they do it correctly. We're the printers – it's our job. We have the software and experience to do it correctly. I can't imagine a company calling itself a printing company requiring the customers do the imposition. There are many variables that change day to day that come into play with imposition, and it's hard enough keeping up with them when you work in the shop!

    Also, they require you to send them native InDesign files?! We only do that when the designer is incompetant or unavailable, and changes need to be made that aren't possible with an exported PDF.

    That said, I suggest that you export your InDesign file to PDF, create a new InDesign file (set up as printer's spreads) to act as an imposition file, place the PDF pages in printer's spreads, and send them that. This way, you aren't copying-and-pasting live page elements over and over when there are revisions, you just re-export to PDF and update the links. Your page numbers will be locked down. Fonts and images will be embedded. And if you frequently work on files that are the same number of pages and the same dimensions, you can re-use your imposition file on other jobs. We reuse impositions basically the same way.

    Seriously, fire your printer. They may be cheap, but if a job gets spoiled because you messed up the imposition, it won't seem so cheap. The average designer is not trained in imposition, and shouldn't have to be.

  • April 2, 2010 at 12:49 pm #55403
    solstice

    Member

    Thanks guys for your advice.

    Maybe I am just missing something with the vendor and they expect things this way because thats how they previously received it before I was here. Honestly when I was hired and took over this publication I felt that we were sending it all wrong and the wrong paper size but the vendor said it was ok. Here's the website. Based on what you see do you think they are just behind in times or am I misunderstanding something. https://www.edwardhine.com

    There is also a second issue. We also do some printing in house. When I print here, I always let inDesign do the work for me, but when I send it to one of our other locations they want the printers spreads. They aren't trained in Indesign yet and haven't used the print booklet feature…I'm working on that.

  • April 2, 2010 at 3:26 pm #55404
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    The problem with them asking people to package the files for print – while this was standard practice c. 10 years ago, it's not practiced anymore. As far as I know it's totally illegal to share fonts. So the printer would have to purchase the fonts and you cannot send the fonts to them, but the EULA for the font would be pertinent here, as some EULAs allow it.

    The reason Adobe introduced a PDF workflow, not the only reason but one of them, was that packaging fonts and sending them to printers broke most EULAs for fonts and the foundraies were being affected costwise. As far as I know Adobe and others came to a decision that embedding fonts in a PDF would be allowed within EULAs to allow printers to output the files.

    But of course there are many advantages to using PDFs in the workflow.

    Based on this and and what I see in the packaging terms on the website, I can say that the printing company is slightly behind the times. They may still produce the fantastic or mediocre or even terrible printing, I don't know I've never used them, but most modern workflows use PDFs and don't ask for the source files, i.e., the InDesign files.

    Perhaps they are a bit behind the times, it's unknown what they do with the files when they get them. PDF, Postscript, EPS files? Who knows?

  • April 2, 2010 at 4:38 pm #55405
    fanthony

    Member

    Hi there.

    A couple of points I would like to add. 1) Svega, have you looked at the Pages Panel options of 'Allow document pages to shuffle' and 'Allow selected spread to shuffle'? Look at the user guide if they help in your issue of moving pages. Also, you may have misunderstood what the printer requirements are: you should first supply them with an high-res pdf with all elements embedded and as a back up the Indi document collected. I am also a prepress operator and usually we also ask clients to supply collected pages items for the simple reason of pages items display or corrections (often colours and rgb pictures that don't convert properly to cmyk) at last moment before going to press. And yes, the client can supply the fonts legally as long as the printer/prepress doesn't use them for other workflows/clients and don't keep a copy (return to client policy. I always return the supplied CD/DVD). 2) For a 'imposition' software, look at Croptima InPlate (croptima.com): I have used the older version (is free if you are using the old Indi CS2) and the newer one is even greater and not expensive at all.

    Regards.

  • April 2, 2010 at 5:23 pm #55406
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    I would disagree with the “And yes, the client can supply the fonts legally as long as the printer/prepress doesn't use them for other workflows/clients and don't keep a copy”

    The EULA for some fonts doesn't allow it. As I said earlier, it was one of the reasons PDFs were allowed to embed a subset of the font for printing purposes. Of course some fonts allow a full glyph set and some don't allow embedding at all.

    But you have to read the EULA and if you're uncertain you have to get permission or clarification from the foundary.

    Of course there is no way of controlling this. But publically advertising it can't be good.

  • April 5, 2010 at 8:42 am #55418
    solstice

    Member

    @fanthony

    I've checked out the pages panel. I'm not having an issue with knowing how to put them into printers spreads. It's just very time consuming. When I have a booklets with lots of pages I lose, a lot of time putting them in printers spreads for the printer.

    Unfortunately the company also limits what can be installed on our systems, although I would love to install impostion software we can't. I have no admin access on my mac, you can imagine what a headache it is. I'm was secretly hoping that I had missed a magic feature that would help out with my issue.

    I agree there also might be something I missunderstood with the printers requirements, but they've only given me the option to package the indesign file.

    @Eugene you make a great point, we really need to check into that. It's just been common pratice here so we've always sent the fonts.

    PDFs always look one way on my computer and then slightly different on he next. I've had proofs come in that jumbled text and made me unsure about moving forward with printing. I'm using Acrobat Pro 9. How do you save your pdfs when sending them to the printer to insure things go smoothly?

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