CreativePro Forum

Return to Member Forum

• Author
  Posts
• • March 15, 2023 at 8:16 am #14388272
    John Kelsall

    Member

    Hi all

    The LTC Goudy Old Style font that is a Creative Cloud typeface has the wrong setting for non-breaking spaces (not the fixed spaced one).

    So when you use it, the space between words is much smaller than the rest of the line in ranged left and justified setting.

    I know there is an issue with non-breaking spaces and World-Ready Composer, but this occurs with any type of composer.

    Does anyone know a workaround for this (as I’ve come across other fonts like this in the past but can’t recall their name at the moment)?

    I know I could use no-break instead but as it is invisible is it not as suitable as the good old non-breaking space. I know I could use a character style for no-break too, but even so it is not really a solution I would like to use.

    I just thought there may be some obvious solution I’ve overlooked that just makes a font’s non-breaking space behave as expected.

    Thanks in advance for any help.

  • March 15, 2023 at 8:18 am #14388273
    Steve Davis

    Participant

    a rough-and-ready workaround would be to simply create a grep-style using a character style with altered space width to the desired amount.

  • March 15, 2023 at 8:56 am #14388274
    David Blatner

    Keymaster

    That is SO weird. I have never seen a font do that, but I can confirm that the non-breaking space is messed up. It’s not just InDesign… Photoshop and Illustrator both show it wrong.

    I think Steve’s idea of a GREP style is perhaps the best. Make a character style that applies around 250 units of tracking, and then use a GREP style to apply it to the character (just type ~S into the field… that’s the code for non-breaking space)

  • March 15, 2023 at 9:59 am #14388304
    John Kelsall

    Member

    Thanks for the reply Steve. I deal with books and most of the setting is justified so I wouldn’t know what width to use for each word space. Also for ranged left setting I can just use the fixed width non-breaking space as that works as normal.

    • March 15, 2023 at 1:00 pm #14388313
      Steve Davis

      Participant

      What David wrote makes sense, however, what concerns me is that you seem to be using non-breaking spaces in place of ALL regular spaces.
      Is that the case?
      Does the non-breaking space not uniformly “misbehave”? If so, David’s idea seems best.

  • March 15, 2023 at 2:12 pm #14388315
    John Kelsall

    Member

    Thanks for your concern Steve but no I would never do that!

    The non-breaking space does uniformly misbehave, but the idea of a non-breaking space is that it looks exactly like any other space on the same line. So if you put a non-breaking space between S. Davis (so that they always stay together), in LTC Goudy it would look more like S.Davis and appear wrong.

    We use the non-breaking space for things like ‘vol. 10’, ‘p. 10’, ‘no. 1’, ‘P. C. Snow’ etc. and is handy for turning words over when correcting proofs.

    To put your mind at rest that I’m not doing anything silly, I have well over 40 years experience in typesetting (originally I was what was known as a compositor), so I’m quite an expert to be honest. I was typesetting before Quark and InDesign (one system (Interset) even in the 1980s did tables so much better than Quark or InDesign and automatically created them perfectly), and I still work at least 10 hours everyday in InDesign on complex books and have my own typesetting company.

    Having said all that – I still learn something new nearly everyday.

    Cheers
    John

  • March 16, 2023 at 1:28 am #14388334
    Steve Davis

    Participant

    “I’ve been forming hot type in fonts with wood for centuries!”
    Seriously though, in this instance, find a different foundry with a typeface that resembles LTC Goudy Old Style as much as possible and go with that.
    The chances are that the spacing won’t be off there.

  • March 16, 2023 at 6:50 am #14388340
    John Kelsall

    Member

    Hi Steve

    Yes, you are correct – Goudy Old Style Std works fine. I just wanted to use the LTC Goudy Pro due to the book I was working on having lots of underdots, overdots and overbars and other glyphs that Goudy Old Style Std has missing.

    Basically in the end I used Goudy Old Style Std for the book and made characters styles for regular, bold, bold italic and italic in Goudy Old Style Pro for any missing glyphs.

    It would just have been easier to set it all in the one font, but life is never easy!

    Cheers
    John

  • March 16, 2023 at 8:53 am #14388342
    David Blatner

    Keymaster

    This is also a good reminder that fonts are software… and they have bugs! This is clearly a bug in that font. I wonder where one would report it?

  • March 16, 2023 at 9:01 am #14388343
    John Kelsall

    Member

    I have a bit of an update about this. The LTC according to the fonts in the Adobe Creative Cloud stands for ‘Lanston Type Co.’.

    I therefore downloaded LTC Cason Pro – and voilà – the same things happens with that font. So I’m guessing this might happen with all fonts from this foundry.

  • March 16, 2023 at 9:30 am #14388345
    David Blatner

    Keymaster

    Oh! That’s a good clue… didn’t think of that. Looks like Lanston is maintained by P22: https://fonts.adobe.com/foundries/lanston-type and https://p22.com/ltc

    I’ll reach out to them and see if they have any thoughts on why this may be happening.

  • October 16, 2023 at 12:13 pm #14396582
    Ariane

    Member

    It’s so gratifying to hear that someone else had this problem—it has been driving me nuts for years (and Goudy isn’t my favorite font to begin with). I use the same workaround as you and just hope that one day, the publishers of the journal will let me redesign the whole thing and leave Goudy behind. :)

  • October 17, 2023 at 4:16 am #14396588
    Marie Doherty

    Member

    Use non-breaking space (fixed width).

• Author
  Posts