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• • January 27, 2010 at 6:04 pm #54682
    kaypcohen

    Member

    Okay, not exactly inDesign related, but I need to figure out how much inside margin to leave for a book project. I know the spine width, size, number or pages, etc. I'd like to use those nums to figure out how much inside margin I should have.

    Anyone know of an online calculator that does this. For the life of me, I can't find one!

  • January 27, 2010 at 6:17 pm #54686
    Dwayne Harris

    Member

    How much space do you have *total* for both inside and outside margins? What is the the page trim? What is the text column measure? How many pages are we talking? What kind of book?

    And I don't think there's necessarily a calculator that will tell what you want to know because it depends upon the job and personal preference.

    If it was a paperback and only a few hundred pages you could get by with 3/8″ inside. If a larger book (say 6 x 9) and 400 pages, you may want 1/2″ or 5/8″.

    To me, there's a lot of variables and no real standard, so to speak. I'm sure you will get a lot of different opinions.

    {edit: I hope I didn't come across as rude with all my questions at the beginning of my post. Just trying to ask for info}

  • January 27, 2010 at 6:24 pm #54690
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    It depends on how many pages you have only if you have 80 or so pages, and of course the thickness of the paper.

    Depending, you can get 80 pages to fold saddle stitch, I am of the thinking that you shouldn't adjust for creep manually. That is a job for the prepress, but that's another debate. When I was doing impositions I would calculate the creep for the sheet into the imposition.

    Neither here nor there when you go over 80 odd pages.

    When you get to over 80 pages, for example, your book will be perfect bound.

    Meaning it will be do in 4, 8, 16's or 32's, which are then folded and stacked on each page. So for example, Page 1 – 32, is imposed and printed, then 33 – 64, and so on, each section is stacked on top of the other.

    There really isn't any creep going on here.

    What you are now concerned with is how much the glue is going to be used on each section to glue them together. It usually extends out to about 5 mm.

    For example: If the Outside margins are 10mm then you should make the inside margins about 17mm.

    This will compensate for the page being glued, and it will account for the bend in the page, so the page looks centered when opened.

    But in saying all that – there are many different ideas, and many different ways to calculate this. Are the prepress going to account for the glue in the spine in the imposition?

    Your best bet is to contact your printers and ask them what margins you should use, you could even get them to send you out a dummy book (a blank book that is finished and folded and glued) so that you can see how it looks. you can then take the book and remove the sections and measure with a rule.

    If in you're in any way unsure you should consult your printer.

  • January 28, 2010 at 7:26 am #54704
    kaypcohen

    Member

    Baah Humbug. Prepress isn't very helpful, sadly. (Though they are very nice!) They just tell me to keep doing what I'm doing, which is a 7/8 inch inside margin. Personally, I find it too big and would like to go smaller. Have a 8.5L x 5.5W book, 512 pages, perfect bound, 1/2 inch outer margin, 7/8 inch inner margin. Would love to shrink margins and reduce page count, too. But am afraid a) i'll shrink inner margin too much and text will dissapear into spine and b) the book will look too crowded.

    Anyway, thanks Eugene for the thorough answer!

  • January 28, 2010 at 8:31 am #54705
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    Did you ask the prepress do send you a dummy book? That will give you a great indication of how far you can adjust the inner margin.

  • May 2, 2011 at 1:18 pm #59468
    gamouning

    Member

    Hi,

    Today, while searching for”creep” information, I stumbled onto the following weight & creep calculator:

    https://www.printgraphics.com.a…..and-creep/

    Hope it's helpful to someone.

    Regards,
    Greg

  • May 3, 2011 at 4:15 am #59475
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    You don't need to compensate for creep when laying out a book – that's all handled by the person doing the imposition.

    Look up “Cannons of Page Contruction” to learn more about how to setup margins. Generally I add about 7 mm to inside margins for a book being printed with a spine. And for about 4-5mm for a saddle stitch.

  • May 6, 2011 at 6:03 am #59518
    Colin Flashman

    Member

    @ Eugene

    yes, it is prepress' job to apply creep to saddle-stitched artwork. however, i still think it is important that designers understand the phenomenon of creep and how prepress operators compensate for it when imposing artwork, mainly concerning cross-overs.

    With the imposing software at my work (we use AGFA Apogee) the program compensates for creep by literally moves the pages closer to the spine until the centre spread is reached. This is fine for artwork where there are no cross-overs, but artwork which DOES have cross-overs need those images to remain where they were while letting the other content be adjusted. This becomes most visible on the centre-spread.

    

    I say this after receiving a 56pp portrait saddle-stitched DL booklet last week which needed to be printed on 150gsm stock. Every page had a crossover on it, but all pages needed creep too. If I had the native files, i could have kept the cross-overs where they were on one layer, and moved the content and type towards the spine on the second layer… if i had native files!

    Was good experience however in working out the increments per 2pp to move all the art (except for the cross-overs) towards the centre spreads :)

  • May 6, 2011 at 6:24 am #59519
    Anonymous

    Inactive

    I just didn't want people slowly making pages .125mm smaller on each spread lol – I've seen it done before. 86 singe pages supplied, each one a bit bigger than the other. It was a nightmare figuring it out.

    Definitely if you're doing a large saddle stitch finish then consult with the printers on the best way to setup the artwork.

    As Foldfactory host Trish always says – think finishing at the beginning :D

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