CreativePro Forum

Return to Member Forum

• Author
  Posts
• • August 13, 2012 at 2:18 am #62873
    Carsten Zuntz

    Member

    Hi,

    I have two odd questions, and I wondered whether anyone has the answers or if it's a peculiarity of my set-up here. (InDesign 5.5 so far, plus Windows 7 Pro. I have to use MS because of my clients.)

    1. I was following a great course by Mike Rankin on Lynda.com about long documents, an found an indexing oddity. When I select an index symbol in the text of Mike's files, the corresponding item in the index tab is highlighted, so I know what the index symbol referred to. (I have to put some symbols in odd places because of the way InDesign treats the 'to the next use of…style' and because of multiple entries, so it's not always clear which word the symbol refers to.)
       But, when I select the index symbol in my own files, nothing happens. I can't find any relevant difference between our two file settings.
    2. Most of the texts I proof and set come from Word and contain screenshots. When any graphic, whether embedded or linked, has transparency, the text on that spread changes to a bolder text. When I flatten the graphic, it goes back to normal. This seems odd and is a bit of a nuisance.

    Any ideas/suggestions gratefully received!

    Thanks,

    Chazz

  • August 13, 2012 at 8:51 am #62879
    Mike Rankin

    Keymaster

    Hi Chazz-

    Off the top of my head, I don't know what might be causing that. If you put your file in Dropbox or some similar place where you can send me a link, I'd be happy to check it out. Send the link to mike@creativepro.com

    :)

  • August 13, 2012 at 10:20 am #62880
    Theunis De Jong

    Member

    As for #2., Word internally converts a lot of bitmap files to the PNG format, which allows transparency. InDesign does not check if it's actually used (it would need to check each separate pixel for that), so when it encounters a PNG file that declares “I might have some transparent pixels” it assumes it has.

    Transparent items force InDesign to use a slower-but-more-accurate drawing model. Unfortunately, this is also reflected in text rendering, which seems to be a bit bolder than usual. However, usually it's not visible in print. (Caveat: this actually depends on the stacking order of text and transparent items.)

    As you noted, the effect disappears when you “flatten” the images (I assume you do this with Photoshop?), and thus remove the transparency. That is indeed a solution.

    Another would be to force InDesign to flatten out transparency on exporting your PDF, and there are various ways of doing this. Export using one of the “pre-press” PDF-X presets (I always forget which one 'cause I do the next thing, which is…) or use a Very Old PDF version such as 1.4, which doesn't support transparency natively. You can also tinker with the transparecy settings inside InDesign itself.

    In general I avoid the problem in its entirety by never using natively embedded Word objects. I convert everything to either a bitmap file on its own, or to a ready-to-be-placed PDF. Little more work, way better control over quality.

  • August 13, 2012 at 11:49 am #62881
    Carsten Zuntz

    Member

    Mike Rankin said:

    Hi Chazz-

    Off the top of my head, I don't know what might be causing that. If you put your file in Dropbox or some similar place where you can send me a link, I'd be happy to check it out. Send the link to mike@creativepro.com

    :)

    ---

    Hi, Mike,

    Thank you for your lightning response – I am now extremely embarrassed. I went to make some trial files to send you from one of the books where the facility didn't work, and now, for the first time ever, except with your files from Lynda.com, it works perfectly. So I tried other books where it didn't work before, and now it does. I have made no changes or anything, so it puzzles me.

    I don't know how you did it, but I'm very impressed! Seriously, if it goes wrong again, may I retain your address and send you a file? Of course, it now won't, I hope.

    Thanks again, and best wishes,

    Chazz

  • August 13, 2012 at 12:00 pm #62883
    Carsten Zuntz

    Member

    Jongware said:

    As for #2., Word internally converts a lot of bitmap files to the PNG format, which allows transparency. InDesign does not check if it's actually used (it would need to check each separate pixel for that), so when it encounters a PNG file that declares “I might have some transparent pixels” it assumes it has.

    Transparent items force InDesign to use a slower-but-more-accurate drawing model. Unfortunately, this is also reflected in text rendering, which seems to be a bit bolder than usual. However, usually it's not visible in print. (Caveat: this actually depends on the stacking order of text and transparent items.)

    As you noted, the effect disappears when you “flatten” the images (I assume you do this with Photoshop?), and thus remove the transparency. That is indeed a solution.

    Another would be to force InDesign to flatten out transparency on exporting your PDF, and there are various ways of doing this. Export using one of the “pre-press” PDF-X presets (I always forget which one 'cause I do the next thing, which is…) or use a Very Old PDF version such as 1.4, which doesn't support transparency natively. You can also tinker with the transparecy settings inside InDesign itself.

    In general I avoid the problem in its entirety by never using natively embedded Word objects. I convert everything to either a bitmap file on its own, or to a ready-to-be-placed PDF. Little more work, way better control over quality.

    ---

    Hi, Jongware,

    Many thanks for your prompt and detailed response. The client for whom I do these particular jobs has a designer who takes over the print process, and their printer specifies the PDF preset they have to use. I make pdfs for their editors and authors to check over, but not for printing.

    I have exported and linked all the graphics for one or two books and it was certainly easier to deal with any odd graphic problems.

    I'm still puzzled about one thing: The Effects palette in InDesign offers a range of effects including transparency and shadow, which cause precisely the same thing to happen. Is there a way round that, say I wanted a shadow round a graphic? I do need the Indesign files to look right, even before exporting.

    I am not a designer, so I'm using Photoshop Elements for the moment, at least, or Fireworks, or Inkscape.

    Main thing – thank you for your reply, and best wishes,

    Chazz

  • August 15, 2012 at 7:26 am #62906
    Carsten Zuntz

    Member

    ChazzGarratt said:

    Mike Rankin said:

    Hi Chazz-

    Off the top of my head, I don't know what might be causing that. If you put your file in Dropbox or some similar place where you can send me a link, I'd be happy to check it out. Send the link to mike@creativepro.com

    :)

    ---

    Hi, Mike,

    Thank you for your lightning response – I am now extremely embarrassed. I went to make some trial files to send you from one of the books where the facility didn't work, and now, for the first time ever, except with your files from Lynda.com, it works perfectly. So I tried other books where it didn't work before, and now it does. I have made no changes or anything, so it puzzles me.

    I don't know how you did it, but I'm very impressed! Seriously, if it goes wrong again, may I retain your address and send you a file? Of course, it now won't, I hope.

    Thanks again, and best wishes,

    Chazz

    ---

  • August 15, 2012 at 7:29 am #62907
    Carsten Zuntz

    Member

    ChazzGarratt said:

    ChazzGarratt said:

    Mike Rankin said:

    Hi Chazz-

    Off the top of my head, I don't know what might be causing that. If you put your file in Dropbox or some similar place where you can send me a link, I'd be happy to check it out. Send the link to mike@creativepro.com

    :)

    ---

    Hi, Mike,

    Thank you for your lightning response – I am now extremely embarrassed. I went to make some trial files to send you from one of the books where the facility didn't work, and now, for the first time ever, except with your files from Lynda.com, it works perfectly. So I tried other books where it didn't work before, and now it does. I have made no changes or anything, so it puzzles me.

    I don't know how you did it, but I'm very impressed! Seriously, if it goes wrong again, may I retain your address and send you a file? Of course, it now won't, I hope.

    Thanks again, and best wishes,

    Chazz

    ---

    ---

    Hi, Mike,

    Sorry if I've botched this sending. In case it's of use to anyone, I found out what's happening.

    All my work has been with book files, and the index notification thing only works with individual files. You can have the book open, and choose a file from it, but the 'Book' box at the top right of the Index drop-down must not be selected.

    The reason it was working when it did was because I only had one file open at the time.

    Do pass this on if it might help, and thanks again.

    Best wishes,

    Chazz

  • August 13, 2013 at 7:00 am #64824
    Carsten Zuntz

    Member

    Just in case this helps anyone:
    I have just finished a book containing some hundreds of embedded images in Word documents, but also URLs and cross references. Flattening the pdf would have lost these links, but the images were all pngs with (apparent) transparencies, with the obvious effect on the text colours and boldness.
    The simplest solution I could come up with, without risking getting some illustrations in the wrong places was as below.

    1. Make separate copy of the Word doc and break into chapters.
    2. Save as html, with each chapter in a separate folder.
    3. Discard all except the graphics folders. Put these ready to link to the InDesign files.
    4. Convert graphics to jpeg (I used Pixillion for this – very quick and easy).
    5. Produce InDesign files from the original Word doc(s) and lay out as usual.
    6. Link each embedded graphic to the corresponding jpg. Since the jpgs are numbered consecutively on extraction in Word, their numbers should match the Figure numbers in InDesign.

    Still fiddly, but easier than unembedding the graphics from within InDesign, then converting each one and being sure to link the right ones despite the odd numbering.
    The graphics can then be re-embedded or left as links.

    I hope this may be of use to someone!

    Chazz

  • August 13, 2013 at 9:28 am #64828
    David Blatner

    Keymaster

    I don’t understand some aspects of this workflow:

    • Why not just import the Word file into InDesign?
    • Why convert the images into JPG? InDesign places and prints/exports PNG files just as well.
    • Why were you flattening the PDF? Why not just export as PDF from InDesign, which maintains the links upon export?

    When I insert images into Word, then select them and apply hyperlinks, then save and place into InDesign, the hyperlinks all come in. When I export as PDF and turn on the Hyperlinks checkbox in the export pdf dialog box, those hyperlinks work in the PDF, too.

  • August 13, 2013 at 9:55 am #64829
    Carsten Zuntz

    Member

    Hi, David,
    Thank you for your prompt reply.

    I do import the Word file and deal with it as normal. But if it contains pngs, the type on the spreads with the pngs becomes a bit bolder, and coloured text becomes much darker. Jongware’s entry above told me why. When I export as a recent-type pdf, most of these problems are reproduced, though unfortunately, not always consistently.

    If I flatten the pngs by exporting with early versions like pdfx 1a, I get a warning that the links will not be retained. Apart from that,as you say, everything works fine in the pdf. When I esport for a printed version, I can use the early version of export because I don’t need the hyperlinks. It’s only the online pdf version which needs to retain the colors and the links.

    Sorry if that is a bit garbled – I have to go out for a meeting. If I am needlessly complicating things, I’d really like to know, but I don’t see another way to get rid of the fuzz etc.

    Best wishes,
    Chazz

• Author
  Posts