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• • May 27, 2011 at 1:16 pm #59707
    Allen Cobb

    Member

    I'm trying to use the latest epub tools in ID5.5 to create a Kindle edition of a fairly simple textbook.

    Unfortunately, I can't get a proper TOC.

    The TOC is generated in ID as expected, and after export to EPUB it's there in the book, and the links all work.

    The NCX TOC is created correctly, and works in the Kindle Reader, but the file is unacceptable because it has no TOC HTML file.

    The TOC is a separate story in ID, and I've tried using doc order and the new Article panel to manage the output. If the TOC follows the main title page, it always turns up appended to the title page, even if I insert a forced page break (the TOC title Para Style is set to start on next page, too). If the TOC precedes the title page, it is omitted entirely from the epub output.

    After a day of reading the Kindle Pub Guidelines, and the meagre docs on ID5.5 epub, and a whole lot of experimentation with para styles, doc structure, and export options, I've been unable to get the dual TOC required by Kindle (NCX and HTML).

    Any info on what I'm missing or doing wrong would be most welcome.

    Thanks,

    Allen

  • June 11, 2011 at 12:52 pm #59828
    Anne-Marie Concepcion

    Member

    Hi Allen, I dont' think you're doing anything wrong. I'm experimenting w/the plug-in these days too. You know it's only for CS4 and CS5, not 5.5. As far as I can tell, the plug-in ignores anything 5.5-specific.

    I emailed Amazon about it but haven't received a reply. Worst case scenario is that we have to build it ourselves in a text editor and add it to the epub (after extracting).

    If I learn anything new I'll write up a post about it, and share it here too.

    AM

  • June 11, 2011 at 2:15 pm #59833
    Allen Cobb

    Member

    Hi AM,

    I managed to construct the right XHTML to get it to work, but there's definitely something wrong with the TOC export. The TOC itself always appears as just another page, rather than a separate entity, and the tag block after the <spine> isn't created. So some reference juggling does the trick, but it's wonderfully error-prone.

    Also, I had a very short dedication in a separate story, but it is always appended to whatever story precedes it in the Articles panel. This is harder to fix manually, because it requires creating a new XHTML page with all the appropriate references. I wonder if ID5.5 has a “minimum length” for a story in the export logic….

    I'm puzzled by your comment about the plugin, though — I didn't mean to imply I was using the old plugin. I'm using 5.5, which as far as I know doesn't involve a plugin. I'm exporting from File > Export and then choosing ePUB format, not from File > Export To > Epub.

    I hope they get this stuff sorted out soon. It's a big waste of time for a lot of people, and it can't take all THAT much work for an experienced coder at Adobe, even if it requires an export option “For Kindle.”

    I (always) look forward to your next discoveries!

    Cheers,

    Allen

  • June 11, 2011 at 4:09 pm #59837
    Anne-Marie Concepcion

    Member

    I thought you were using the Export to Kindle plug-in that Amazon offers for free. In CS4 and CS5, it creates the TOC for you. In CS5.5 it doesn't.

    So how are you converting your EPUB to Kindle format? You just say you look at it in the Kindle Reader. The Kindle Reader can't open EPUBs as far as I know. Are you using the Kindle Previewer (which runs KindleGen, their conversion program, on the fly) to convert the EPUB?

    Are you testing your EPUB in various readers, and validating it, before you convert it to Kindle format?

    AM

  • June 11, 2011 at 4:47 pm #59838
    Allen Cobb

    Member

    Interesting — I hadn't even thought of using the Amazon plugin anymore, since updating to 5.5!

    I'm exporting to ePUB from ID5.5. Then, as you surmised, I'm opening the ePUB in the Kindle Previewer, selecting “view in Kindle Reader,” and letting the previewer run KindleGen to end up with a MOBI file running inside the reader. It's this MOBI file that's giving me problems.

    I've not been testing in other readers, because this project was dragging far past its deadline, and Kindle was the only format needed, and the permutations of ID export options, XHTML experiments, and zipped or renamed ebook files were … well … driving me bonkers.

    Now you've got me wondering if there's a better workflow. But I'm reluctant NOT to use the ID5.5 export code, in the hopes that they will get it right.

    Or perhaps they ARE getting it right, but the KindleGen phase is messing up.

    It seems that the ideal (other than having a simple direct path from ID to Kindle that works) would be to use the ID export logic, and then the Kindle import logic, which is basically what I was trying to stick to.

    It's wonderfully confusing, here on the bleeding edge, isn't it?

    AC

  • June 11, 2011 at 6:10 pm #59839
    Anne-Marie Concepcion

    Member

    ha! yeah. Are we having fun yet?

    Don't bother with the plug-in w/5.5, it won't work. (I mean, it works, but the resulting MOBI is usually broken.) And it does not pay any attention to 5.5-only features like the Article panel; because there's no place to tell it to *use* the article panel.

    AM

  • June 11, 2011 at 7:22 pm #59840
    Allen Cobb

    Member

    Fun? Well, more fun than recent .folio adventures, but that's another story/saga/epic.

    I figure if I don't solve all the problems too fast on my own, the industry will catch up with itself.

    Now we just have to convince the publishers that (like the record companies) they will eventually make more money this way, and it's not helpful to charge 50% MORE for a Kindle edition than for a hardcover print edition.

    AC

  • June 17, 2011 at 9:14 am #59874
    Ron Bilodeau

    Participant

    Hi Allen,

    Have you tried adding the <guide> info to the contents.opf file after the <spine>?:

    <guide>
    <reference type=”toc” title=”Table of Contents” href=”toc.html”/>
    </guide>

    (href=”*” should point to the html file in your epub that contains your TOC info)

    You need to do this before using KindleGen to convert your ePub to Mobi.

    Hope this helps.

    Ron

  • June 17, 2011 at 2:58 pm #59879
    Allen Cobb

    Member

    Hi Ron,

    Yes, thanks, I'm adding that. Although I'm doing it after KindleGen instead of before. Do you think it makes a difference? KindleGen happily makes the Mobi with the missing <guide> section, and Kindle Reader happily displays everything (except the TOC). Then I pull out the TOC page and add the <guide> section, and everything works. I just wish ID5.5 had a checkbox for Kindle so I didn't have to slog around in the zip files.

    Allen

  • April 1, 2014 at 3:33 pm #67824
    Allen Cobb

    Member

    In case anyone comes across this thread, years later, I should note that my TOC problems seem to be resolved with InDesign CC and the Sigil epub editor. The simplest procedure I can recommend for InDesign CC is this:

    To generate EPUB with proper “dual” TOC’s from InDesign CC, first export to EPUB in the usual way (I recommend Anne-Marie’s Lynda.com course). Don’t concern yourself with the Amazon plugin, because (as of 4/1/2014) it isn’t compatible with InDesign CC anyway. Once you’re done with cleanup and other tweaking within InDesign, add these final steps:

    1. Open the EPUB in Sigil (0.7.4 as of 4/1/2014). Don’t use the .MOBI which may have just been created too.

    2. In Sigil, Click Tools | Table of Contents | Create HTML TOC.

    3. Save the EPUB.

    4. Now you can reopen the EPUB in the Kindle Previewer, which generates .MOBI output.

    5. This seems to work reliably, and you will now find the TOC inside a Kindle reader via the TOC button or menu item.

    I hope this helps save someone a lot of thrashing around in obsolete or confusing documentation.

    Allen

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