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• • April 7, 2015 at 11:05 am #74432
    Michael redbourn

    Member

    I have been learning and studying Indesign for a couple of weeks in order to use it for a cookbook.

    And I feel certain that I can gain the necessary skills.

    The issue is that right now I only need it for one book and even if I write a couple more books I would most likely only use it 3 times.

    So I’ve been thinking that maybe it would be better to pay somebody to do it for me.

    I contacted somebody a couple of days ago, gave her a recipe and a photo, plus an image from a book that I like the layout of, and asked her to send me a pdf of her work.

    She sent me a pdf today and although I didn’t like a couple of her ideas, she seems to know her stuff.

    I asked her for a price and she said $10 per recipe, plus payment for any additional pages, and there will be about 4-5 of them, plus payment for the index and cover.

    There will be about 25 recipes, so we are talking about at least $300 which seems a lot to me.

    But maybe it isn’t.

    What do you think?

    She said that paying her for each recipe would be fine.

    Thanks,

    Michael

  • April 7, 2015 at 11:13 am #74433
    David Blatner

    Keymaster

    InDesign is a professional-level software program, and production artists like this often charge between $25 and $125 per hour.

    It may take 30 or 45 minutes to set up the first recipe and then just 15 minutes for additional ones (or more… I’m just estimating). Then there’s the time involved with communicating back and forth, doing proofs, and so on.

  • April 7, 2015 at 11:14 am #74434
    Caspian Ievers

    Member

    300 for a professional book design is a bargin if you ask me.

  • April 7, 2015 at 11:32 am #74435
    Michael redbourn

    Member

    Thanks.

    I wasn’t trying to be a cheapskate but simply wanting to check prices, which is prudent.

    I like the expression, “Don’t buy a cat in a sack”.

    Michael

  • April 7, 2015 at 2:31 pm #74441
    Dwayne Harris

    Member

    I think it’s a very good price. It could easily cost you twice that if you went to a professional typesetting house.

  • April 8, 2015 at 8:21 am #74449
    DCurry

    Participant

    I agree with the others – this is a great price.

  • April 8, 2015 at 8:45 pm #74476
    Artwork Abode

    Member

    Hello Michael,

    The big question is whether the designer you asked for this job is experienced for you wishes.

    If you want a professional Recipe Book design cost of 10$ per page isn’t so big.Maybe that person don’t have so much projects behind.
    But if you want to find secondary good design this cost is very real.

    And another thing, don’t stop learning Adobe InDesign.I know a lot of self-taught people that are InDesign professionals now.

    Regards,

    Artwork Abode.

    • April 9, 2015 at 4:28 am #74480
      Michael redbourn

      Member

      @Artwork Abode @loicaigon

      He did a good job for a friend of mine but I’m having communication problems with him.

      I email her asking a couple of questions and he replies answering just one of them.

      The third time that that has happened and it would drive me crazy.

      The friend that recommended him said that he had the same problem :-(

      Michael

  • April 9, 2015 at 1:31 am #74479
    Loic Aigon

    Member

    Hello,

    Also consider hidden costs. One may offer cheaper prices but can create files that will produce errors at the printing stage. I am not saying it will, just that he can. So you may have the feeling you are saving the money but will pay this twice in the end fixing the issues.
    Don’t focus on the money only but I would also recommend getting in touch with former clients of the designer if you can. I would definitively put skills prior to budget ;)

    For what it’s worth,

    Loic

  • April 9, 2015 at 5:21 am #74483
    Loic Aigon

    Member

    @redbourn,

    I understand. I guess business relationships is also about relationship and most of all how respectful and mutually profitable it is. One can be a good match for a client but not for another one. If you are crazy about the designer before you even contracted, that’s not good. And I have the feeling that your concern about the price takes its source from your unsatisfaction with the mail exchanges. You may want to clarify that with the designer himself. So once everything is clear you can decide if you still want to work with him or find someone else.

    Just to step back a bit, it’s also possible that the designer received your questions but found them of minor importance at this stage while he answered to the one that critically matters to him. I keep on thinking you should restate how you want this project to be achieved (i.e. good communication).

    Hope that helps,

    Loic

  • April 9, 2015 at 5:42 am #74486
    Michael redbourn

    Member

    Thanks for the reply.

    I have been learning Indesign for a couple of weeks but am also getting to grips with a new camera, along with writing my book.

    So I’m feeling a little overwhelmed at having to come to grips with three things at once.

    In one email I told him which fonts I would like to use and in the next email I sent him one recipe and this.

    https://misconceptions.us/misc/fontandlayout.jpg

    And asked him to do the same layout for one page as a trial.

    He sent me a pdf which didn’t have the same layout or use the fonts that I requested.

    What he sent looked OK but had nothing to do with what I wanted to see.

    Michael

  • April 9, 2015 at 6:09 am #74488
    Loic Aigon

    Member

    @redbourn,

    Ok I see. Don’t get me wrong about my message. I understand that ‘as a customer’ you want to double check quality of the people you want to work with. But if you place yourself on the other side, you might understand that asking a “trial” is all but a mark of consideration. From the moment you are requiring a work, even a dummy one, it’s actually work, time hence money. That might possibly explain why the designer doesn’t show much effort here.

    If you go see a mechanic for your car, do you ask him to repair only a part of the car to decide if you will keep on working with him ? Once again I understand your point of view and not judging you at all. I am just trying to introduce what might be the designer feeling here.
    You should choose a designer on what he did (a book for ex.). Later if you want a piece of work, state exactly what you want and require a quote for that preview. I am certain he will become more enthusiastic if ever this is the problem here (I don’t know him and he might disagree totally).

    That’s my humble opinion and I think i will stop commenting here as I presumed this is the point where the thread could easily turn wrong. After all it was all about costs and I am the first who displaced the topic.

    Hope this comment is helpful anyway.

    Loic

  • April 9, 2015 at 6:16 am #74489
    Artwork Abode

    Member

    Michael,

    You have to set working conditions, but it has nothing to do with your main thing, and that is Graphic Design.That’s more business staff.
    Before starting a project and before starting to work with somebody you must write down what you want, what business conditionals will you prefer, how high will be your budget and then choose several guys, and introduce them with all that.Then give them paid trial, like to do one page for you to see what is their design skills.Then if they accept all terms you can choose best option for you.

    So, don’t rush with this project.Maybe you will get better opportunity in the future.

    Artwork Abode

  • April 9, 2015 at 6:19 am #74490
    DCurry

    Participant

    I think you may need to differentiate between hiring a “designer” and a “production artist.” Hire a designer if you want him/her to design the book. It sounds like you have already designed it by choosing fonts and layout and just need a production person to take your design and build the book based on it.

    Lots of folks can and do perform both tasks – it’s just a matter of communicating upfront what your expectations are.

  • April 9, 2015 at 7:21 am #74496
    Richard Krawiec

    Member

    The price sounds fine to me.

    After all Indesign has a learning curve and a cost as well as the cost of the platform to run it on and that’s before you factor in the time element of getting the end result.

    The issues regarding achieving a succesful end goal revolve around communication and interpretation…they both need to be accurate.

  • April 9, 2015 at 4:10 pm #74534
    Michael redbourn

    Member

    This kind of got off on the wrong foot from a business point of view because the introduction came via a friend.

    I just sent him a letter explaining what I want and asked him to do a one recipe spread, using my choice of fonts with a photo on the facing page.

    I sent a recipe, a photo and the money in advance via paypal.

    And I asked him to model it on the jpg that I sent.

    Thanks for lots of useful feedback.

    I think the communication issue may be a reason for me to look elsewhere.

    I don’t want to ask or say the same thing two or three times.

    I quite like Goudy and either Vectora 45 Light or News Gothic Light – I can’t see the difference between the last two.

    Any comments on fonts would be more than welcome.

    Michael

  • April 9, 2015 at 9:12 pm #74541
    Colleen Shannon

    Member

    I agree you need to be clear that this is a production job. Are you planning to print it locally? Print shops are a good source of prepress production talent. Also, you need to be clear on ownership of the final design/files. It sounds like you will want the InDesign files, so you have to make that very clear up front. (Industry standard is that a designer owns the InDesign files and gives the client PDF files which are to be used only for a specific quantity/purpose.)

  • April 10, 2015 at 2:53 am #74548
    Michael redbourn

    Member

    Thanks for the reply.

    Haven’t really got as far as where to print it yet.

    Getting recipes tested by others, proofread and taking 25+ photos of food means I’m probably 8-9 months away from the print stage.

    Somebody who’s cookbooks I really like has them printed in China.

    Good to know about ownership of the InDesign files.

    I’m starting to swing back to the idea of me continuing to learn InDesign.

    Michael

  • April 10, 2015 at 4:02 am #74549
    Loic Aigon

    Member

    Hi Michael

    One question : where are you stocking your recipe data right now ? If you have hundreds of recipes, you may consider using some kind of database and get your cookbook fully automated. So any changes in a recipe can be easily reported in the cookbook. You can even split the work with an artist working on the visual aspect while delivering a clean base layout and deal with automation/updates on your side. That may dramatically reduce cost in the long term.

    If you want more infos, feel free to get in touch with us at ozalto.com

    Loïc

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