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How much should I charge for complex layouts?

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    • #97144
      Joel Wilcox
      Member

      My day job involves typesetting academic nonfiction, and I’ve also done page layout weekly for a nonprofit’s 20-page pamphlet. I’m used to working with styles and graphics, and I even know some GREP. However, now I’m getting into deep water…

      …I’m investigating laying out a really complicated book and would like an idea of what to quote the author since they’re going to be covering the layout/typesetting fee (this is done for an assisted self-publishing business where the bookstore and their distributor set the author up with freelancers in exchange for selling and distributing the book). Essentially, the author is selling the book through bookstores, but paying for the publishing fees and owns the rights…

      …Meaning I have to make sure not to overcharge the author or underpay myself. By “really complicated” I mean this book has photos, poems (attached to the photos), charts, diagrams, AND text with headings. There doesn’t seem to be a standard rate for this kind of thing. Keeping in mind I’m not designing the graphics (just laying them out), what would you charge for this? I’m going to find out first if the author is willing to adjust layout expectations because she wants a 5.5 x 8.5 layout (personally I think that’s nearly impossible if I want to make it look good). I’m charging a consultation fee just for the initial meeting with the author (flat rate of $50).

      I’m reluctant to charge by the hour because I have no idea what to expect, but this project sounds like a black hole for my time. Can several people take a stab at how much I should quote? Flat rate seems like a really bad idea here since I don’t know what the author’s expecting or if they’re easy to work with (hence the consultation).

    • #97176

      That’s a good question, Joel.

      I freelanced in the past (through my company for some projects) but I got paid hourly (and it wasn’t great money). (I think I only got $20 an hour and after US taxes, the government took almost half, so I quit doing it. Not worth working 8 hours only to see 80 bucks after taxes.

      To me, the first thing you want to do is see the design file and the Word file from the author. See exactly what is involved so far as various elements and stuff). Then figure out how many days/hours it would take you do it (approximate).

      By the way, do they have an approximate page count?

      Then, maybe divide the time you estimated into a certain price per page. It’s kinda like a flat rate, but it’s per page. So if the book ends up bigger, you get more because it’s per page.

      Now–what about 2nd, 3rd, and/or 4th passes. You know the authors and editors always make changes.

      1) First pass–figure out a price per page. And that price is ONLY for first pass pages.

      2) Subsequent passes–either per hour or per correction.

      Normally more money is made for the subsequent passes than the first pass. I’m only saying that because first pass is easy compared to when the editors and authors add and delete and change stuff and you have to totally repage the book.

      I’ve done first pass pages (from tagging the Word file to laying out and putting in the artwork) in 8 hours. But when it comes back for 2nd pass, it takes me 16 hours to input the changes and repage the damn book.

      You want to get paid for subsequent passes!

      The company I work for has some pricing stuff, but we work with major publishers. I can check to get you a ball park figure, but we bid on individual jobs at times and they all vary. I can check if you want, just post back and let know.

    • #97180
      Joel Wilcox
      Member

      Thanks, Dwayne. You have a good point about subsequent passes, since we usually do those at my day job. I will say that publishers pay on the poor-to-middling end for projects like this, but this is what I’d call “assisted freelancing” with no overhead. They just placed me with the client. The distributor has a ballpark estimate of 200 pages of 8.5×11. Problem is the author wants it in a (much) smaller format and different proportions (5.5×8-ish) so I’m afraid that though she’s done a nice job of pre-layout work, it’s not going to be easy. At this point the question is if I’m going to need to change computers for this job (because this alone might justify doing that).

      Go ahead and give me a ballpark figure if you have one, but my hunch is that the 50% down payment would have to cover the hardware (my computer by far exceeds Adobe’s *cough* recommended requirements) but it’s not up to the task of an image-heavy 200+ page book.

    • #97501

      Joel–unfortunately my boss is on vacation for a week (actually five days), so I may not have a ball park figure.

      What kind of computer are you using for InDesign? PC or Mac? How much ram?

      At work I only have a mid-2010 iMac with 12 gigs of ram, but it easily handles 400+ pages with hundred of pieces of art.

      My home machine (2017 27-inch iMac (48 gigs of ram) is a monster and is amazing.

      I know what you mean about the “assisted freelancing.” I did that for a few years and said screw it. I would work 10 hours on a Saturday and see a lousy hundred bucks after taxes. Wasn’t worth my time and effort.

      Speaking of Adobes recommended requirements–we have a gal at work who unfortunately on a 2007 iMac with only 2 gigs of ram (max is 3 gigs). Gets stuff done, though it takes 10 minutes to launch ID. Trying to convince the owner to buy her a new iMac.

    • #97508
      Joel Wilcox
      Member

      Hm, yeah, it looks like an iMac or a MacBook Pro might be my best bet then. Thoughts on either/or?

    • #97506
      Joel Wilcox
      Member

      Good things to know.

      I currently have a PC, I’m sad to say. Though it has 16 GB of RAM and a quad-core i7 6700, Windows eats a good chunk of that memory alive by nature. I didn’t have luck with a 2013 Macbook Pro at my day job what with it having kernel panic errors and eventually giving up the ghost. I think Apple desktops are killer at this sort of thing and probably have better parts. Sadly (or perhaps fortunately) the best cross between cheap and good in Mac desktops is currently the 2013 gen Mac Pro (I’m finding Apple certified refurbs for 2500). Once I factor in the Pro’s user replaceable parts and the fact that I already have dual monitors, I’m not thinking it’s worth paying the big bucks for the 2017 iMac’s screen and inability to replace or upgrade internals. I’m also reluctant to face replacing all my cables and peripherals for the sake of switching to Thunderbolt 3. Thoughts on that? I’m not sure I can justify paying $3000 for a computer but the publishing house I work for by day has hired freelance designers only to find the contractors didn’t computers fit for the job. I’d rather not be in their shoes.

      And yeah, somehow I have bad luck with pushing computers to the max. My 2014 Mac Mini was so garbage slow with CC 2015 that I ended up having to get rid of it and switch to the lower-cost HP I have now.

      • #97601

        I wouldn’t waste money on a 2013 Mac Pro (those are the cone shaped ones, right)?

        The new 2017 iMacs are quite the beast. I got the 3.8 ghz one, and popped in the extra ram). I’m surprised that your 2014 Mac Mini was so slow. A gal at work has a Mini (maybe a 2015 or something) and that thing is pretty quick.

        I’d go with the iMac (don’t get the low-end one). Go the top tier preconfigured one (the 3.8).

        But that’s just me.

        I haven’t used a PC or Windows since the 90s.

    • #97602

      Ooops–so far as the rest of your post. I see what you mean about replacing cables and peripherals. But–they do have adapters (i.e., Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2, then Thunderbolt to FW 800.

      The main issue I see with the 2013 Mac Pro is that it’s pretty not much supported anymore and it’s going on five years old. Apple has discontinued that line in favor of the iMac Pro (coming out in December).

      It’s a tough decision.

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