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Aligning baselines between columns

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    • #69902

      Hi guys! So I am writing a book with two columns, and laid out the document without having turned on the “align baseline” feature. When I go to turn that feature on in the body text paragraph style, they line up, except the body text has sub-headings and call-outs within the columns which now are strangely spaced because it’s trying to accommodate all the different paragraph styles and font sizes. Is there a way to work around this? I heard of a formula for calculating the correct leading/space before & after for the different paragraph styles so that your columns will always align. Any tips/suggestions on this would be appreciated. Thank you in advance!

    • #69903

      Well, you’re going to get a lot of varying opinions. Personally–I try to never use align to baseline grid. I work in book publishing, and align to baseline is a pain in the butt.

      For your spacing, be warned that I worked in points and picas.

      The general rule of thumb is 20 percent. That is, your leading is 20% of your type size. For example, if your type is 10 point, your leading would be 12 point. This is not written in stone. You can have a head that is 11 point with 12 lead, or even 9 point type with 12 leading. The 20% is just a starting point.

      For spacing above and below heads, you want to keep it even. If your head is 11 point with 12 point type and you want a line space above it, you would put 12 points (or 1 pica) in the space above. But suppose you wanted a bit of space below the head. Then you could make it 9 points above, 3 points below (which equals 12). Or if you wanted more space above the head and below, you could have 18 points (1p6) above and 6 points below. Remember the 12 thing as that’s your leading. And in the latter instance, the space above/below equaled 24 points, which is based on 12s. The main thing is you want your style sheets to be on even lines.

      And you want to set up your baseline grid in your preferences for the leading of your job. And set where the first line begins so that it aligns with your first text line. Once you set that up, there is no need for lock to baseline grid.

      If things aren’t set up for even lines and your grid not set correctly, align to baseline grid will do wacky stuff.

      If you do use align to baseline grid, never use it on subheads or text following subheads.

    • #69971
      Tom Venetia
      Member

      My 5 cents: I had a very similar problem while layouting in a magazine style a 500 pages book with over 400 images and hundreds of boxes. Let me tell you this: even if one follows Dwayne’s recommendations (which are good), in this kind of publication ID falls short of all previous DTP software. In my case, spending dozens of days I was able to come up with a reasonable layout, but far from what I wished. Simply put, ID is NOT the ideal software for complex layouts, with several fonts (32 in my case), images of several sizes and imbedded boxes. In PageMaker, Quark and Ventura Publisher this was a breeze.

    • #69972
      Tom Venetia
      Member

      Sorry, I forgot this: my comments refer to two or more columns per page layouts. With no columns the task is less demanding. Cheers Tom

    • #69978

      Tom that’s really interesting. What was it about PM, Quark, and Ventura that made it easier? AFAIK “lock to baseline grid” works essentially the same regardless of program.

      AM

    • #69983
      Tom Venetia
      Member

      Hello Anne-Marie,
      As in ID, all these programs used text boxes and one could define vertical justification for each one or for all.
      But here stops the similarity to ID. For some weird reason those who wrote IDs code linked/forced vertical justification with several other parameters, like, for instance orphans and widows (keep options – which is the major offender) and some even weirder image boxes “attraction-repulsion” feature (like if a box would have its “own life” irregularly attracting or repelling texts around when one applies text wrap to them). As far as I could diagnose this, all is related to a concept that Dwayne mentioned. All text paragraphs have to obey certain rules of spacing/leading multiples for baseline grid to work. It just happens that this is almost impossible in a complex layout, as I mentioned previously. On the other hand the 3 programs mentioned did not imposed such limitations. Vertical justification could be nicely fit by playing with leading, tracking, kerning and of course with fractional type sizes and paragraph spacing overrides in text box.
      And believe it or not, Ventura Publisher, the first DTP for PCs (PageMaker came later) was a very powerful and well designed program. It did not have all IDs bells and whistles, but it performed magnificently even with complex layouts. One of its best features was anchoring images or boxes to text. As text changed and flowed, it would push up or down the linked object, but when it did not fit on the same pages, it would push it to the top of the next (or previous) page and place a mark on it, calling the user attention. Re-anchoring was a breeze, all one needed to do was to drag the image or box to a new position.
      Since this does not works well in ID, my trick is to flow first all the text of a chapter or document, then layout page by page, without using anchors, making sure that everything on page 1 looks right. Then I proceed to the next, and so on. Even so, when it comes to vertical justification of two or more columns documents, it is a nightmare in ID.
      A nostalgic note :-) Ventura Publishes did not run under Windows (Windows would be invented 1 or 2 years later), rather created inside a DOS’ characters-only environment a graphical one. Don’t ask me how they did it, but there was a Xerox “Windows” that run Ventura Publisher. In other words an emulation of a graphical environment.

      • #69984

        Intesting stuff, Tom. I have to admit I never used Page Maker or Ventura. I had to use Frame Maker a few times and that was not a fun experience.

        I wish Kytek had AutoPage for InDesign. I used it a lot in my Quark Xpress days. But Quark allowed one to make separate H&Js, while InDesign does not. So it can’t be done.

        I do the same thing as you when it comes to anchoring art when paging a job. I get it laid out first, and then go back and anchor.

    • #69986
      David Blatner
      Keymaster

      A couple of quick notes:
      For handling vertical justification better, check out the Proper VJ plug-in:
      https://in-tools.com/products/plugins/proper-vj/
      (I believe Harbs wrote this based on ideas from Brad Walrod.)

      As for Kytek… I remember Keith Erf well, and I remember asking him 10+ years ago if he was going to do something for InDesign. Oh well. In the meantime, I think a lot of that composition market has gone to products from Typefi.com

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