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• • March 8, 2016 at 1:31 pm #82737
    Robert Britton

    Member

    Hi David et al!

    I took your course on Lynda.com for Indesign Basics. I work at a non-profit that publishes booklets we make. The booklets are design as 5.5 x 8.5 facing pages that are ultimately printed on 8.5″ x 11″ paper on a Konica Minolta C364e.

    The document has a color cover (front and back) and all internal pages are designed using grayscale objects and K-only colors. (When I use seps preview and turn off K, I see white internal pages and the color cover minus the K needed for Rich Black.

    If I export the PDF with the OUTPUT settings set to convert to destination of GrayGamma 2.2, I get a lovely grayscale PDF. These pages print on our Konica as K-only and cost a black click. Nice. Just what I wanted.

    If I then export the PDF with OUTPUT settings set for what the document was designed for (U.S. SWOP Coated CYMK), it exports with color cover and internal pages are all on the K-channel only. No Rich Blacks. Just what I want.

    If I try to print a single INTERNAL B&W page from the U.S. SWOP Coated PDF, even though it’s pure K (or a tint) only for internal pages, it prints in Full CYMK and costs a COLOR click.

    I have tried dragging the color cover pages to the GREY GAMMA PDF as the first and last pages, one comes in as a color page (NICE!) but the back cover turns gray (BOOO!).

    If I do it the other way, and drag the gray gamma internal pages to the U.S. SWOP Coated PDF, replacing the internal pages with those from the Gray Gamma PDF, they all stay as K-only TINTS (YAY!) But when I print one of those internal gray pages (verifying they are K-only using separations preview and turning off K shows the page goes white.), they cost a color click.

    This is driving me insane. My printer (Konica C364) has a setting (no we don’t have a FIERY RIP) called AUTO COLOR that is supposed to determine whether to print something in COLOR or B&W. Of course, even though they are a multi-billion dollar company (like Adobe), there is no support from the vendor or the support provider (who says, “Color Management? CMYK? What’s that?”) who treas the device as what it probably is closer to: An Office MFP, not a real CMYK device. (Perhaps it is with the FIERY RIP, who knows?)

    Anyways, we, as a non-profit, print hundreds of these books. If each page, though it is truly grayscale (K-only in the PDF for internal pages).

    I honestly can’t tell if this is a Adobe problem, or a printer problem, or both.

    I just want it to be able to print a color cover (the Konica has a COVER option for doing saddle sticked booklets) with internal B&W pages. 1 color click. 7 b&w clicks. We lose gobs of money if internal pages cost a full color click.

    Anyways, I know this is a forum. And I know I’m just a watcher / subscriber of your Lynda.com courses. But I am truly hoping you or someone else might be able to help me figure this out.

    I know the prior designers (who are no longer with us) were able to do this. I’m on my own here since they quit. I’ve been scouring the Adobe FORUMS for a few weeks now, tried seeing if PitStop Pro might be able to help (no forums over there).

    Somehow, though the PDF is U.S. SWOP Coated, and Seps Preview shows all my internal pages are using K-only, it is still printing internal pages in full color. First, it looks awful (has a blue cast), but most importantly, it costs a color click.

    Somehow, the PDF and Adobe say to the printer, “Here’s a color cover.” Printer says, “CHeck. Color click.” Then Adobe Acrobat DC during printing says, Here’s a page with only tinted K, and the printer says, “No problem. Color click.” (Either that, or during the printing process, it’s actually Adobe Acrobat DC that is doing the conversion to CYMK Rich Black and saying to the printer, “Here’s another lovely Full CYMK Rich Black page.” Printer says, “Check, color print” and the vendor reaches deep into our pocket and takes 1600% more money from us for that page than just a B&W click.

    I’m ready to drink until I’m a limp noodle. I feel like such a tool for not being able to figure what used to seem such a trivial thing. I’ve got a huge inventory/print job to do, and I know it’ll cost us thousands more if I can’t figure this out.

    Help!

    Is there a PDF format that allows for both GRAY GAMMA and CYMK mixed pages?

    What else can I do to get this right?

    (I had spent so much time making the INDD file have nothing but CYMK color on the covers and pure gray scale PSDs, PNGs, and K-tints on internal pages. Looks sweet! Just what I want! And the export making a U. S. SWOP Coated PDF looks awesome! Color cover, K-only internal pages (verified using Seps preview.)

    Print? Cha ching! There goes another color click for a K-only page!

    Arrrrggggg! I’m going to jump off a tall building!

    Help please!

  • March 8, 2016 at 2:22 pm #82740
    Colleen Shannon

    Member

    Robert –

    I don’t know about your printer, but some of them don’t switch from a Color click to a B&W click in the same document (even Xeroxes can be like this). You may have to print covers and insides separately. If it has 2 trays, it may be able to collate for you after. It’s a pain, but that’s why some print shops charge more for mixed Color/B&W than just Color alone.

    Go back to your PDF Export Settings and try these:

    1. General: Standard PDF/x 1a:2001, Acrobat 4
    2. Compression: Do not Downsample (all 3)*,
    check Compress Text and Line Art, check Crop Image Data to Frames
    3. Marks and Bleeds: Uncheck all Marks, Bleed: .125 on all sides
    4. Output: Convert to Destination: US Web Coated (SWOP) v2,
    Ink Manager: check All Spots to Process (if needed)
    5. Advanced: Transparency Flattener: High Resolution
    6. Save Preset

    You can also try cleaning up your PDF by Exporting to PostScript and loading it in Distiller.

    Colleen
    Graphic Design/Prepress

  • March 15, 2016 at 7:32 am #82914
    Robert Britton

    Member

    I hope this info here helps any one with a similar problem.

    Here’s what I had to do in order to fix my problem.

    I exported from ID my document as a color PDF ensuring it was output to U.S. Web Coated SWOP.

    I exported a second copy, but changing the OUTPUT to Gray Gamma 1.8 to a different file. I then used Acrobat DC to use preflight to CONVERT TO GRAYSCALE.

    In my first document (the color PDF), I deleted all the internal pages except the front and back color cover using ORGANIZE PAGES. I then used OGRANIZE pages on the grayscale document and dragged all the INTERNAL PAGES (except the front and back cover) to the color PDF.

    The result was a PDF that printed color front and back covers (costing a COLOR CLICK) and internal grayscale pages that cost a B&W Click.

    Now I can run my production without breaking the bank.

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