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Podcast 155 Transcript

To hear the audio episode from which this transcript was made, or to comment on this episode, go to the InDesignSecrets Podcast 155 page.

David Blatner: Welcome to InDesign Secrets, Episode 155. I’m David Blatner. I’m here along with my cohost, Anne-Marie Concepcion.

Anne-Marie Concepcion: Hi, David, how are you?

David: Wonderful, Anne-Marie.

Anne-Marie: That’s good.

David: Wonderful, wonderful!

Anne-Marie: Our podcast and blog at are the world’s number one resource for all things InDesign.

David: Indeed and coming up on today’s show, we’ve got a Back to School episode. We’re going to learn InDesign good. Yes, we are.

Anne-Marie: At InDesign, in InDesign.

David: InDesign. We’ve got a bunch of cool announcements that you should know about including some new cool plugins that you should definitely know about and the obscure InDesign feature of the week, Select Next Object, not this object but the next object.

Anne-Marie: Not the one underneath.

David: That’s right.

Anne-Marie: The next one.

David: The next one and the sponsor for today’s episode is InTools, in dash tools.

Anne-Marie: That’s right. So, we’re recording this at the end of August and here in the U.S at least, school starts… if it hasn’t started already in the past week, it starts next week.

David: Starting today for my boys. We sent them off to elementary school. They’re having a great day.

Anne-Marie: That’s so nice.

David: Everyone’s excited.

Anne-Marie: Is it school day?

David: New pencils, new erasers, it’s wonderful.

Anne-Marie: What is this pencil that you speak of? Is it the writing? Is it a stylus? Oh, a stylist for the iPod? Is that what it is?

David: I should have set them in with a new iPod each. You’re right, damn!

Anne-Marie: I’m surprised that they don’t require every elementary school child to have an iPod.

David: That’s true, if only this were the 21st century.

Anne-Marie: Oh, yes.

David: Oh, wait, it is.

Anne-Marie: All right, so anyway, we’re going to talk about lots of tips for everybody to increase their knowledge level of InDesign.

David: Yes.

Anne-Marie: To go back to school for InDesign even if you’ve been using it for a few years, there’s always an opportunity to learn more. I’ve been writing and teaching about it for years and I always learn something new every time I teach. It’s like, “Oh, I didn’t know you could do that.”

David: That is so true, just amazing.

Anne-Marie: All right so, let’s start with some books. What are some good books that you may not know about or that’s maybe you heard about but you need to be reminded about, some good books for InDesign users?

David: Some people say books are pass√©. Here we are again, you add a comment, but I think it’s always a good idea to have a little library of books around and of course, the first one I’m going to recommend is my very own “Real World InDesign” and “Real World InDesign CS5” has been out for a while. If you buy “Real World InDesign CS5,” you can download a free CS5.5 addendum from the Peachpit site. It’s from Peachpit Press and so, that’s kind of helpful. That was, I cowrote that with Olav Kvern and Bob Bringhurst. I’m going to recommend that everybody take a look at that because it covers a little of everything. It’s like 800 pages long, a little of everything and it’s a great reference to have on hand.

Anne-Marie: It’s kind of like the bylaw. I would say that’s a given. I was talking about books other than the required text.

David: Thank you very much but there are a bunch of other books. If you’re a beginner, I would still recommend for beginners who were just trying to get up and running in InDesign, check out Sandee Cohen’s “Visual QuickStart Guide.” One of the tricky things we’re doing here in this podcast is, we’re talking about how to learn more about InDesign but of course, you may be a beginner trying to learn more or you may be an intermediate user or an advanced user. So, we want to give a little bit of everything to everybody.

Anne-Marie: That’s right. Another good book for, I think people from across the spectrum is Nigel’s book, “Using InDesign Typography.”

David: Yes, Nigel French’s book also from Adobe Press and Peachpit.

Anne-Marie: I was teaching last week to people have been using InDesign for years. They didn’t know what the paragraph composer was.

David: Interesting.

Anne-Marie: How about that? Yes, that was always frustrating so typography is such a huge part of InDesign and Nigel’s book, he goes through that in details and lots of other very useful information when you’re setting type in InDesign which everybody always does.

David: Sandee just wrote that blog post about using primes, prime symbols instead of the straight quotes and so on. It was interesting because I look at that, I’m like, “Oh, yes, does everyone know that already?” And then, immediately, there’s all these people who say, “This is great! I’m so glad someone’s doing it. I’m going to print this out and pass it around to everybody.” So it’s really important, learn a little bit more about InDesign everyday. So that’s a terrific one. I think Nigel’s book is terrific.

Anne-Marie: That’s right.

David: Also, Jim Maivald’s book on XML. There’s a couple of books on XML now, which if you’re an advanced user and you want to learn more about InDesign, XML and scripting is…

Anne-Marie: Those are the ways to go.

David: Yes, that’s really important stuff to learn about and so, Jim Maivald’s book about design an XML, XML for Designers… We’ll put it in the show notes. And then, there’s also that book, Gamble’s book on using XML and JavaScript. It’s called InDesign CS5 Automation and we’ll put links.

Anne-Marie: That’s right, an incredible book, very well written and I’ve never seen any book written about how to write JavaScript for InDesign before so it’s one of a kind. Actually, it should be called Using JavaScript and XML because the whole JavaScript chapter comes first.

David: Interesting.

Anne-Marie: Why is it XML and JavaScript?

David: That’s, people have funny things about their titles.

Anne-Marie: All right. Let’s not also forget, Michael Murphy’s wonderful book on styles.

David: Yes.

Anne-Marie: I keep that here on my desk and while I’m on hold, I always flip through it and learn stuff. He’s very good. That guy is, he knows his styles inside and out. That is an excellent book no matter which version of InDesign you’re using, you’re going to get a ton of great information from his book.

David: Because of the title says “InDesign CS4 Styles,” right?

Anne-Marie: Right, that’s right which is unfortunate.

David: But it’s still totally relevant for CS5.

Anne-Marie: Oh, yes.

David: I don’t know if any of that changed or very, very little so yes, that’s a good one. I wish they just didn’t put the numbers in the title especially for a book like that.

Anne-Marie: I agree. Yes and Michael Murphy is also known as “The InDesigner” In case the name doesn’t sound familiar.

David: Right.

Anne-Marie: He had a videocast and a blog for a while.

David: Yes, so there are a lot of other places. You mentioned videocast and blog. There’s of course, a lot of videocast and blogs out on the web that you should be taking a look at as well. There’s this thing called InDesign Secrets which is…

Anne-Marie: Oh, yes.

David: Yes.

Anne-Marie: I’ve heard they had videocasts, that’s true.

David: Hey, they have two videocasts now. They have a videocast at InDesign Secrets and they I like to term that they. They have InDesign Secrets videocast at now.

Anne-Marie: That’s right. I thought we’re going to put that in our announcements there.

David: We are. It was such a good segue that I think we should sneak it in.

Anne-Marie: All right, that’s good. Yes, there’s a new title at called InDesign Secrets that Dave and I do.

David: Yes, so they’re going to release a couple of those each week and it’s good stuff.

Anne-Marie: Yes, half of them are free so you don’t have to be a subscriber to watch them. That’s the important thing and they’re going to drill them out every a couple of weeks for a year.

David: Yes, it’s great. It’s fun.

Anne-Marie: Yes.

Dave: ¬†Anyway, there’s a bunch of other stuff out there where you can learn about InDesign. Videos, we mentioned There’s lots of other videos. We have other titles at as you probably all are already aware, but there’s other video companies out there as well. Sandee Cohen just did a thing for Software Cinema on…

Anne-Marie: Introduction to InDesign CS5?

David: Right, just beginning. This is beginning InDesign. So if you’re just getting up and running with InDesign, it might be a good place to look. VTC has InDesign titles, Video2Brain has InDesign titles. Russel Veers did a wonderful InDesign title for Video2Brain so there’s some good stuff there.

Anne-Marie: And don’t forget Adobe TV. Adobe TV has a ton of InDesign videos. We’ll put a link to all of them. That they gather from both Adobe staff and then, also from outside in the real world. They add them to Adobe TV. I think we have a few out there too.

David: We do. We have some up there too, definitely but we will link to the training as well because there’s lots and lots of InDesign stuff up at that you should know about.

Anne-Marie: Absolutely.

David: What’s another thing that people want to know about? When you’re going back to school and getting ready?

Anne-Marie: I think especially beginning users. They want to get a jump start. They get a new job and they’re tasked with creating brochures or newsletters and they have the real world InDesign book that’s kind of an imposing 800page monster and they’re like, I just want to make a newsletter. So templates are a great way to jumpstart your work. If you can start with something that was professionally designed, that you can open up and then, just fill in with your text, should you change a few colors, drop in your logo, I hear that a lot. So, there’s some really good sources for templates we want to tell you about. First of all, of course, we have all of the InDesign templates that Adobe used to ship with InDesign itself but they stopped that I think in CS4.

David: CS5.

Anne-Marie: CS5.

David: Yes.

Anne-Marie: And we are able to grab those and so, you can download all of those from our website. We’ll put a link to the InDesign templates. Now, they are in CS3 or CS4 format so if you have a later version, you’ll need to save them because they’ll stay converted. But, those are a good start and there’s a big selection there like CD covers and things like that.

David: Absolutely, that’s a great selection.

Anne-Marie: Yes and then, what other templates? Then, there’s

David: Yes, Erik Ragas has been putting some beautiful templates and we can be releasing one of those at InDesign Secrets pretty soon. He’s giving us an exclusive on that but he’s got a bunch of stuff on his website of all kinds of cool InDesign templates and many of them are free or they are…

Anne-Marie: Yehey!

David: Yes or they are paid with a tweet. I like that. They’re free, but you have to tweet about it through their little mechanism. That’s kind of interesting thing they’re doing. There’s also, if you want to pay for some templates, there’s some great templates available at the InDesign Ideabook, and check Green has put together lots of great templates and actually, it’s a book and a DVD or some CD of templates and it’s really good stuff so you should check that out.

Anne-Marie: Yes. And then, another place that people should think about when they’re going back to school is go to the InDesign User Group site and see if any new InDesign user groups have sprouted up near you. They’re going great guns. I don’t know how many there are lately but they’re all over the place. In some cities, some locations have access to more than one because they’re just a short drive away. Here in Chicago, we have the Chicago, we have Milwaukee, we got Madison, I think there’s one in Indianapolis. A lot of times, people will drive from one to the other because they have really cool speakers, people from Adobe fly in, they gave away good prices. Often, they give away a free copy of the crazy suites during it.

So even if you just go to the InDesign Secret or InDesign User Group website, you can see notes from meetings, you can download a lot of templates and goodies from them and then, there’s always discounts offered for, if you belong to an InDesign User Group which is free, you can get discounts like, we always have discounts to our conferences and seminars if you’re an InDesign User Group member.

David: Yes, I’m really glad you brought that up. I’m a big believer in the user group because it’s persons, people helping people to get better at InDesign. Absolutely essential to look at those and they’re all over the world. They’re in Japan, in Africa and Asia and Europe, all over the place so check that out. Another way for people to help people is the forums. There are several good forums out there. There’s the Adobe forum that a lot of people use. I find it kind of frustrating actually. I don’t like it, the Adobe format.

Anne-Marie: Why?

David: It’s my little pet peeve. I find it hard to find things. It’s slower than I wish it were. It is, I don’t know. It’s usually clunky for people.

Anne-Marie: I completely agree, but what you need to do is you need to subscribe to it. I subscribe to about probably eight or nine different forums on the Adobe website like the InCopy forums, the Acrobat forums, two or three of the InDesign forums because there’s InDesign Windows and Mac, there’s InDesign scripting. When you subscribe, which is easier to do if you go there to your settings, then every post gets emailed to you.

David: So you have thousands and thousands of emails coming at you.

Anne-Marie: Yes, I do. What do I care? The emails take 1k or half a k. I set them up to shoot off into their own mailbox and then, we have to look at them and then, whenever I want to look something up, I can just do a quick search on the entire mailbox.

David: I see so if your style…

Anne-Marie: So if you search for XML and then, you can see them all arranged there by thread.

David: Wow!

Anne-Marie: It’s like an incredible brain trust and then, you can dump them after a year if you want.

David: That’s interesting.

Anne-Marie: Yes. You can’t post by email unfortunately. You have to actually go to the website to post.

David: I see. There’s another forum out there which I happen to like a little bit more for InDesign forum and that’s the InDesign Secrets forum.

Anne-Marie: Yes.

David: And so, if you have a question, a burning question about InDesign or some trouble that you’re having with InDesign, definitely check out the InDesign Secrets Forum.

Anne-Marie: I am so happy with the InDesign Secrets Forum and I have to please crow that this was my idea. Do you remember that?

David: It was.

Anne-Marie: You and I, we argued for I think, a couple of years. You’re like, “Why do we need a forum? There already is a forum.”

David: Yes.

Anne-Marie: I’m like, “Because our community wants to talk with each other and help each other.” And now, if you go there, it’s just amazing how quickly people respond. I think even more often than the Adobe forum, you get a lot of quick responses if you post to the InDesign Secrets forum. Very helpful users there like John Warren and Eugene and you, a whole bunch of…

David: That’s right.

Anne-Marie: Their script is running out. It’s really good place.

David: It is. Anyway, there’s lot of things, lots of places to learn more about InDesign and I just really want to push people to learn. This is the time to rededicate yourself to learn whether you’re a beginner. If you’re a beginner, learn more about styles like you’re mentioning Michael Murphy’s book. Learn more about table styles and object styles and stuff, learn more some keyboard shortcuts, give yourself a goal. I’m going to learn ten keyboard shortcuts this week and I’m going to start using them. Just get a little bit more, that’s fine.

Anne-Marie: Right. It just takes ten minutes to look something up because I can guarantee you that a year from now, if you’re still using InDesign, you’re going to learn something, you’re going to be like, “I can’t believe I was doing it the hard way all this time.”

David: Yes.

Anne-Marie: That happens so often. I just run into somebody who never styles and they were just always using the eyedropper. They thought that was the only way to get consistent formatting in their text for two years.

David: Oh, man!

Anne-Marie: They felt so bad, somebody else who never created a text frame with the type tool because they never realize that you got that tool, you can do more than one thing. They were creating the frames, the frame tool then always turning off the onepoint stroke.

David: Right.

Anne-Marie: So please, do yourself a favor. You will enjoy your work more. You’ll get out of work sooner. It will be a lot easier. You’ll realize why people are so enthusiastic to program. About the program, if you just take ten or fifteen minutes and look something up in the help file or one of these resources we’ve been talking about.

David: Yes. If you’re an intermediate user, I want to encourage you to learn more about GREP styles just a little bit. You don’t have to get crazy with GREP, just learn a couple little things that you could do with GREP styles. It will save yourself a lot of time or using Apply Next, Apply Style then Next or some other kind of, a little bit fancier.

Anne-Marie: Quick Apply.

David: Quick Apply, start getting used to Quick Apply, excellent idea, start doing some interactive docs. If you’re only doing print based stuff, just try, just push yourself, some weekend, I think I’m going to make a little interactive doc or maybe a little ePUB or something.

Anne-Marie: Or, maybe, right, if you’re exporting to PDF to put up on your website, take some time and make your logo into a link, right? You can turn the logo into a button that links to your website, you can turn the email address and do a hyperlink sort of beef them up a little bit. Don’t just put the print version of the PDF on your website.

David: Right. And if you’re an advanced user, you really need to be learning more about GREP. You may not call yourself an advanced user unless you know some GREP. You need to know a little color management. You need to know how to do a little bit of scripting. You don’t have to do a lot, just the basics or at least you need to know how to find scripts, install them and start using them.

Anne-Marie: That’s right.

David: That’s really key. So push yourself a little bit, make this the time that you’re going to learn more about InDesign.

Anne-Marie: That’s right. All right, so our sponsor for this episode is InTools, Harb’s InTools. He has so many cool things on his website. I don’t know what we should be talking about.

David: If you’re doing multilingual publishing, you must check out his World Tool stuff absolutely.

Anne-Marie: That’s right.

David: If you’re doing long doc publishing…

Anne-Marie: Long documents.

David: Yes, you have to check out his publishing suite. There’s stuff in there that is so deep that it is just incredible, his stuff for doing running headers. There’s stuff for doing automatic formatting of your documents when you’re importing stuff. You just have to check that stuff out if you’re trying to maintain an automated workflow and get your work done efficiently so check out InTools, In dash Tools dot com and just look around inside. There’s a bunch of free scripts. There’s some really cool plugins.

Anne-Marie: The scripts are great, yes.

David: Yes but anyway, it’s really worth checking it out. OK, we should talk about some announcements, things coming up in having to do with InDesign.

Anne-Marie: Yes.

David: We already mentioned the videocast, the new video cast from InDesign Secrets. The seminar, we should definitely mention Fritz’s. James Fritz is doing a seminar September 27th in Milwaukee and if you’re anywhere in the great Midwest, you definitely want to make…

Anne-Marie: The Great Lakes region.

David: There you go, Great Lakes.

Anne-Marie: The Best Coast. You got to see Fritz. If you haven’t seen the Fritz Live, it is so much fun.

David: It is fun.

Anne-Marie: It’s an InDesign Secrets live full day seminar. He’ll be going through all the cool InDesign Secrets tips and techniques you should know about. He’ll be talking about prints, PDF, ePUB, DPS and he’s going to show a half hour on news which is the…

David: Yes, the new Adobe thing.

Anne-Marie: Yes, the new Adobe thing. He did a video on getting started with news over at and it’s kind of creating websites for InDesigners.

David: Yes. It will be interesting maybe to do a podcast on that sometime but anyway, that’s for another day.

Anne-Marie: That will be good.

David: But check out Fritz’s one day seminar, September 27th and the early bird registration ends I think September 9th so that’s very soon.

Anne-Marie: That’s right and if you are an InDesign Secrets User Group or an InDesign Secrets member, we give discounts. If you’re a user group member, you get a discount as well.

David: Also, you’re doing a seminar, full day seminar, that’s until November but, November, what, 3rd or something?

Anne-Marie: November 2nd.

David: Second, in Las Vegas.

Anne-Marie: Las Vegas, baby, yes. Yes, there’s a conference there called Publist that I’ll be speaking at and the day before, I’ll be doing an all day seminar similar to James Fritz except not quite so, jumping off the podium and going crazy, energetic because he… I’m more of a quite, retiring kind of person as all my students can attest.

David: That’s you, yes, retiring, yes.

Anne-Marie: Yes, but I’ll be, disputing my guts about all the cool InDesign Secret features that had been building up all these years.

David: I think that’s going to be great.

Anne-Marie: That’s quite visual, yes.

David: Anywhere in the West Coast, if you’re in LA, easy drive out to Las Vegas. In Phoenix, wherever you are, check it out, Las Vegas, November 2nd. Then, we should mention the PeP conference, the Print and ePublishing Conference. We don’t have an official date but we’re getting mighty close.

Anne-Marie: We’re very close.

David: And we are aiming for the West Coast in the spring. It’s going to be lovely West Coast spring. Check it out. We were in the East Coast this year, of course, in May in DC. So in 2012, we’re aiming for the West Coast and maybe in May, maybe in June. Some people are hoping we’re going to do Maui. I like that little…

Anne-Marie: Yes, they’re tweeting about it.

David: No, we can’t. Maui does sound good, but we’re not doing that.

Anne-Marie: We should do a cruise, PeP Conference Cruise.

David: I like that. I like that idea very much.

Anne-Marie: I think I’m going to cruise myself, yes.

David: Yes, we can do that.

Anne-Marie: All right. Oh, yes, I wrote a post about some very cool plugins that have come down the pipe recently so we’re going to link to it. But there’s some really cool things that our sponsors and that other developers are developing like. For example, there is now an app for the iPad that will let you edit InDesign documents. How about that?

David: Yes, that’s really interesting. The IDML. It’s IDML with a lower case I. That was very funny, very cute.

Anne-Marie: Yes, so I guess you export your files to IDML and then, people can actually open them and edit them on the iPad which is very neat and then, another one, it’s related to web is, I think it was Chris who wrote. He did a frame, the framed web.

David: Yes, framed web, very interesting. The whole idea of taking stuff that’s already on the web and importing it in the InDesign especially an html import is very exciting to me.

Anne-Marie: Yes, like PDF to ID except it’s HTML to ID.

David: Yes, it’s great. He has a lot of interesting work there.

Anne-Marie: I haven’t seen it, but I was very intrigued by his recent, the latest beta. He can convert the CSS styles based on paragraph and character styles.

David: I love it. It’s going to be cool. Hey, anyway, we should move on and talk about the obscure InDesign feature of the week.

Anne-Marie: That is Select Next Object and also Select Previous Object?

David: Yes, Next and Previous Object. It’s right in your face. You’ve been seeing this.

Anne-Marie: Absolutely.

David: If you use InDesign, if you have the control panel open, it’s in your face all the time. These are little buttons that open the control panel halfway, kind of in the middle. They have a little, looks like a flow chart.

Anne-Marie: It’s a Martian doing a summer four mode, that’s how I think of it.

David: Is that what it is?

Anne-Marie: Yes.

David: I was wondering.

Anne-Marie: It’s like this head with three arms and there’s a little triangle, one’s pointing to the left, one’s pointing to the right.

David: Excellent, that’s what it is. It’s Martian to the left, Martian to the right.

Anne-Marie: That’s right.

David: There we go. So it’s this little thing that’s sitting in there and it is almost always active. The only time that it really gets grade out, as far as I can tell, is if you select everything on your page. If you do a command A or control A, it’s like everything on the page, then it grades out because there is no next or previous. That should be your clue for what this thing does. This selects the Next or Previous Object on the page or in a group and it depends on what you have selected on the page. If you have nothing selected on your page then those buttons will select the first or last object on the page. Isn’t that kind of cool?

Anne-Marie: It is cool and then, as you keep clicking it, it selects the next object and this is in chronological order or stacking order?

David: It’s stacking order, stacking order on the page, from the top most object to the bottom most object in the stack.

Anne-Marie: Interesting, throughout the spread?

David: Throughout the spread, that’s true. It’s not just the page, it’s the whole spread. It’s kind of a hidden thing. Spread is actually our pages but blah, blah, blah, it doesn’t matter. Anyway, so very interesting. If you’re inside of a group, then it will select the next or previous object in the group so that can also be very handy. These are really handy for selecting just the right object. If you have a lot of objects in a page or inside of a group, sometimes it’s hard to click on just the one you want so these can help you do that.

Anne-Marie: I really thought that that’s the only way that they work so, it was news to me that it would work even if you weren’t doing with a group. I use these all the time when I was creating, intricate illustrations in InDesign with InDesign elements. Like say, for example, that you did a picture of a yard and you made a picket fence out of a bunch of frames and then, behind it, you drew a tree free hand and you selected all the pickets through the picket fence and group them and then, you selected the elements of the tree and grouped it and then, you group the tree and the fence together. All right, which I drew all the time probably, three times a day and then, say that I wanted to select just one of those pickets. I would select the group with the selection tool and then, those little Martians to the right and left summer four, there’s one that’s pointing up and down so you click the one down. That means, select the nested subgroup in this group so it would select either the fence or the tree and then, when you have the fence selected, then you could click the next object and it would select individual elements in that subgroup.

David: Right.

Anne-Marie: And I would use that to select one to the right, one to the left rather than holding down the control key or the action key and trying to get exactly what I click on to be selected. I always use it to drill down in a group. I didn’t know that it would work all the time.

David: Interesting. Yes, it works all the time. It doesn’t have to be groups. So there you go. So you see, there’s always more to learn about this amazing program, always more. The other thing, you mentioned that little button, the Martians, the content like that container that lets you go down inside. In CS5, you could just double click. That’s the trick there. Just double click and that selects inside of a group.

Anne-Marie: Right

David: And then, you can hit escape to…

Anne-Marie: To move out, yes.

David: To move out, yes so, I think we had talked about that before.

Anne-Marie: Yes, we did.

David: But there’s another little secret trick about those Select Next and Select Previous and that is, if you have a lot of objects, sometimes you want to skip to the first one or the last one. And so, if you command a click or control click with… on Windows, you command a control click on the previous object. That’s the little button on top.

Anne-Marie: The button, yes.

David: It will jump to the first one all the way to the very first object or on your page that means, the topmost object, right? And if you command or control click on the second button, it jumps always the last object either in a group or on the page, on the script. And if you do it with a shift key instead, shift clicking on those, it skips by five which is kind of cool. So, if you have your little picket fence scenario there and if you want to do color every fifth picket in the fence, you could shift click on that to jump every fifth one. All right, see what’s that sort of thing.

Anne-Marie: Here’s a question. What if you have different layers in the selection? Does it make a difference?

David: If you have different layers in this selection.

Anne-Marie: Now that we have taken the requirement, there has to be a group which is what I use to think, off a table so you can just make a selection with a bunch of stuff in different layers.

David: Right. Well, you don’t want to do a multiple selection. You want to have them unselected.

Anne-Marie: So they’re unselected and I press Next object.

David: You make a really good point. You know what?

Anne-Marie: With that, it goes through the layers.

David: It goes through the layers? For me, those buttons only apply to the objects on the current layer, whatever they’re selected.

Anne-Marie: I’m not sure why it jumped a layer even the layer two is active but if I have something selected on layer two and then I use next and previous, then it limits itself to things on layer two. But, if I have nothing selected but the active layer is layer two and I use Previous or Next, it jumps to layer one and it never comes back to layer two.

David: That’s interesting. It actually jumps to layer one so you don’t get all the objects. It’s just looking for the first one on the spread, whatever the first one is on the spread. Yes, that makes sense.

Anne-Marie: Yes, right, if nothing is selected, it says, layers be damned, I’m going to look for the first object. But, if you have something selected then it knows, I’m talking about this layer and it looks only in that layer.

David: Yes, good. That makes sense. So we’ve pretty much flagged that one to death.

Anne-Marie: We’re going to do a short podcast. We’re like at 45 minutes now. All right.

David: And that is it, that’s it. We’re done.

Anne-Marie: That’s the end of it, that’s it for Episode 155. Be sure to check out the show notes on our blog at We’re going to put a ton of links to all those resources that we mentioned. And we’d love to hear what you thought of the show. Leave a comment in the show notes, start a topic in our forums or email us at [email protected] Don’t forget about the early bird deadline for Fritz’s seminar on September 27th. It’s a not miss event and till we meet again. This is Anne-Marie Conception and…

David: … David Blatner for InDesign Secrets.

David Blatner is the co-founder of the Creative Publishing Network, InDesign Magazine, and the author or co-author of 15 books, including Real World InDesign. His InDesign videos at LinkedIn Learning ( are among the most watched InDesign training in the world. You can find more about David at